Domestic compromises and low level listening

[pmcuk]

Is your partner in the same room when you are listening to music? If not, it would be worth understanding what is the main cause of the sound leakage that is disturbing her. If it is all frequencies and the walls are solid, check if the door or other openings can be sealed better. If it is low frequencies being transmitted through the floor, then isolating the speakers can be very effective.

My own view is that noise pollution is antisocial and at any levels that cause discomfort and stress to others it's simply a selfish act. Sorry to be so brutal. My default noise level for the inhabited world is silence, and any noise level above silence needs looking at for the stress it may be imposing on people. Some of us still think silence is golden.

 

[bigrod]

I get stressed when I’m in a demo room at a show or otherwise and people are talking over the music
IMO If you need to talk do it outside

 

[lostwin]

My own view is that noise pollution is antisocial and at any levels that cause discomfort and stress to others it's simply a selfish act. Sorry to be so brutal. My default noise level for the inhabited world is silence, and any noise level above silence needs looking at for the stress it may be imposing on people. Some of us still think silence is golden.

Fair enough, but not very practical for a hifi forum - unless 4'33'' is your favourite track

 

[pmcuk]

Fair enough, but not very practical for a hifi forum - unless 4'33'' is your favourite track

Why can't a hifi forum deal with lower listening levels? This is the "practical" reality for those living in apartments. I can hear the footsteps of people moving around upstairs because they have polished wood floors with no carpets. Just one of a million thoughtless acts we have to deal with in terms of noise pollution.

I'm a musician - I made my living creating sound, but in performance spaces not in domestic apartments. But maybe because of being a musician I really love and respect silence. Someone once said to me 'a musician is a person who prefers 10 minutes of silence to 10 minutes of bad music". And I'd prefer life without moderate tinnitus in one ear. Just another consequence of high sound levels.

Most people seem to think noise is normal. I'm not one of them. Music is sublime, but it also has its place amongst other things in the world.

I enjoy designing and making all kinds of things and I really agreed with this quote from Francisco Costa:

I don't listen to music when designing. We create in silence. I go through a torturous process because everything has to be precise and right.

But that's just me. My wife, on the other hand, isn't relaxed unless she has music in the house 24/7. She has the radio on all day at low levels. Silence spooks her.

 

[hificricketboy]

I have Living Voice, and they've been powered here by a fairly wide range of amplifiers. I would actually suggest that a BP 300B may not be ideal.

My own experience is that unless you are right at the top of the 300B tree, then counterintuitively, more power actually works better for lower volume. I normally use an 845 amplifier, which is about twice the 'before distortion' power of a 300B SE. In my room, that fills out nicely at even very low levels.

You could also try some shifting around in terms of toe-in. Although the LVs traditionally work best with a lot (pointing to a spot in front of the listening position), for really low levels, you may get a better presentation with a bit less toe-in

I was considering simplifying the system with a solid state integrated amp, but SS amps I have heard (all a while ago and not on the same price level) tended to need to be played louder to gel. 845s is something I hadn't considered and will do some research.

Speaker positioning is a bit compromised. I'll measure the actual positions but currently they are both about 30cm from the rear wall. The right hand speaker obviously has a side wall whereas the left hand speaker has nothing. This can cause imaging issues. I have played with toe in a bit. They're on granite chopping boards so I can slide them about. Currently crossing about 1m in front of the listening plane.

 

[hificricketboy]

I like small spkrs, something like the Tablette 10 are v.nice at low volumes. Easier to drive than some too.

I had a pair of ProAc 1SC for a while. They possibly weren't partnered with the best amplifiers but I found the sound oddly lost in the room. I moved back to floorstanders with a different set of compromises.

 

[hificricketboy]

Seriously, though....

Fletcher Munson might indicate some sort of "loudness control" in the old parlance of a bygone day.
Viz. a bit of a tonal boost at frequency extremes to compensate for hearing sensitivity at lower than realistic playback levels.

The Auralic Aries G1 has some capability in this area. I'll have to investigate but I think I can raise the bass and treble response from memory.

A separate room is not a possibility unfortunately and I really don't like headphones.

Listening is often done together but at volumes where the image and presentation don't quite gel.

 

[audio_PHIL_e]

My own view is that noise pollution is antisocial and at any levels that cause discomfort and stress to others it's simply a selfish act. Sorry to be so brutal. My default noise level for the inhabited world is silence, and any noise level above silence needs looking at for the stress it may be imposing on people. Some of us still think silence is golden.

I wish I could enjoy silence. Although I hate man-made noise (jet engines especially - curse you Frank Whittle) a quiet environment make my tinnnitus seem louder, so I can't win.

 

[hificricketboy]

Is your partner in the same room when you are listening to music? If not, it would be worth understanding what is the main cause of the sound leakage that is disturbing her. If it is all frequencies and the walls are solid, check if the door or other openings can be sealed better. If it is low frequencies being transmitted through the floor, then isolating the speakers can be very effective.

As above, we often sit together listening but at a low volume.

 

[hifinutt]

Yes, but it's not really about making do with less deep bass and extreme treble, it's about compensating for perceived treble rolloff due to hearing sensitivity.
It's about adding the missing sparkle which would (I expect) bring the music to life at lower levels, which is what the OP is probably looking for imo.

And a decent digital equaliser is transparent ime.

interesting point . over past few days i used a different pre amp with the AR6 and there was more grunt and weight but it seemed to lose a bit of that top end sparkle . Back went the C5i which gave that sparkle and realism . These certainly play well at low volumes but those beautiful LV are so lovely there must be a way of improving low end listening .

I know what about swopping them for these if they are any better !

 

[MartinC]

Not in my experience. It depends on your definition of "transparent". If you are putting anything in the way of the signal it won't be transparent, and this would apply to analogue frequency shaping. If this can be done digitally, then so much the better. But the frequency shaping programmes I tried for headphones were dire.

Any analogue equaliser or DSP that is transparent is broken. The whole point is to change the sound, but in the context of this thread to make what is heard closer to the original sound. We are talking about changing the audio signal to make what is heard more accurate, not less.

 

[hificricketboy]

interesting point . over past few days i used a different pre amp with the AR6 and there was more grunt and weight but it seemed to lose a bit of that top end sparkle . Back went the C5i which gave that sparkle and realism . These certainly play well at low volumes but those beautiful LV are so lovely there must be a way of improving low end listening .

I know what about swopping them for these if they are any better !

3 things strike me about that video. 1. The speakers are in open space with no room boundaries to interact with. 2. The toe in to the phone recording isn't what I've read about LVs. 3. I need to buy some land to build a conservatory to accommodate my system!

I bet it would still be too loud...

 

[hifinutt]

you are not far , come round sometime and listen to the ar6 at low volumes here

 

[pmcuk]

Any analogue equaliser or DSP that is transparent is broken. The whole point is to change the sound, but in the context of this thread to make what is heard closer to the original sound. We are talking about changing the audio signal to make what is heard more accurate, not less.

That's one way of looking at it, but not what I'd want for myself. I prefer a dip in highs and lows to compromising the clarity and tonality of the majority of the frequencies. There is no total accuracy in sound reproduction - you just have choices and the choices have consequences.

 

[hificricketboy]

you are not far , come round sometime and listen to the ar6 at low volumes here

Thanks for the invite. We'll have to arrange a meet up

Interestingly I have an alternative pre amp I could roll back out of hibernation. I have an EAR 802 which I could try (should have sold it when I got the SJS).

Or I think I can try the Aries to control volume. Not sure how that would work. (Aries to Hex to BP...).

 

[hifinutt]

It's a pleasure .also got the tannoy Eaton legacy that play nicely at low volume and of course are adjustable for treble

 

[JANDL100]

The Auralic Aries G1 has some capability in this area. I'll have to investigate but I think I can raise the bass and treble response from memory.

Try tweaking the treble up by 3 or 4db or so and see if that's the kind of effect that you want.

 

[garn63]

I understand the OP's dilemma, indeed it is a bone of contention with me.
I don't listen at loud levels. Think that our hearing when we age is different, & of course our mindset too.
Ime the set up that gives all the detail, with a suggestion of bass, isnt necessarily the one best at even slightly higher listening levels.
Being realistic and knowing ones room helps, but accepting a happy medium that isn't perfect is perhaps the key.
I wanted a little more weight & drive. Achieved this with a class A amp but the trade off is having to listen a little louder. Have enjoyed the vibrancy of horns as my hearing became rolled off. If I pull my ears forward I get a taste of how I used to listen
My best amp for low volumes is class A/B and I seem to have a finer/larger range to use with the volume control on the Pre. What to do ?
Find what suits your own ears. Smile. Listen to the music..not the system.
* @JANDL100.. I would love the option of a loudness button.

 

[pmcuk]

Listen to the music..not the system.

Are you being serious?

 

[garn63]

Absolutely. Enjoyment and letting the music take you places has nothing to do with being analytical imo. If you don't experience that at all, you would be continually shopping or chasing a puff of smoke..without pleasure.
Balance and sanity over compulsive obsessiveness ?
* Am half and half.