Speaker / system suggestions for low level listening / minimal bass?

[RafaFed]

Hi guys.

It looks like I'll be moving to a flat as previous planned move has fallen through; I will have neighbours both above and below.

In a bid to get a decent sounding system that only I can hear I'm after something that sounds good a lower volume levels. I presume something a bit more bass light would be a benefit?

Assuming the move goes ahead the room will be 20' x 13'. The speakers will be firing across the room width ways; seating position around 10' from speakers.

I'll be starting from scratch. Source will be purely music streaming (hopefully higher res & lossless). I would like to be able to hook the system up to the TV for general tv/film watching.

I'm keen to hear the KEF LS50W II. Any suggestions much appreciated. Prefer to spend under £3k and listen to all types of music but predominantly rock based and electronic.

Many thanks

 

[CnoEvil]

The Kef LS50W II is a terrific choice and should be your benchmark.

Depending on how low a level you will be listening at, a Sub might be a good idea. The logical one is the KC62, but if that puts you over budget, then something from BK.

Given you will lose bass (and indeed treble) at low listening levels (Fletcher-Munson effect), the Sub will "flesh out" the sound when listening quietly. It can then be turned off when playing more loudly. If you go this route, you can isolate the Sub from the floor with an Auralex Sub Dude or Gramma.

The joy of a Sub, is it can be tailored to your needs.

Despite saying all that, the sound can be tailored on the LS50W, so a Sub may not be necessary. Suck it and see.

 

[Jezzer]

Good shout on the Kef. Alternatively you can get an amp with a DAC and tone controls. £1.5k off this Denon. Then you have a grand left for speakers. I’d wager that the ProAc Tablette 10 would partner rather well with that amp and would suit your needs for a speaker with lighter bass while retaining fun and transparency.

 

[RafaFed]

Many thanks both. A BBC style speaker did cross my mind. I'm not familiar with the Denon PMA-A110 but will investigate

 

[pmcuk]

I'm not a fan of the Kef LS50 line, so I'll pass on that. I use a 2a3 amp in my own system, and I also have a nice one for sale in the classified. PM me if interested. I use a pair of Wharfedale Program 30D-6 speakers which are surprisingly good and easy to find and cheap on eBay. I actually preferred them to the LS50 in my system. I love 2a3 amps - it's all I use. Much prefer the 2a3 to the 300b.

I have people up and downstairs and I have enough bass. No sub. I'd never use a sub anyway - I prefer the purity of not using all the extra stuff in the signal path.

 

[dave]

ELS 57 or similar dipole, with the right amp (16 ohm tap), very satisfying. I got my radio 3 habit when I was living in a similar situation.

 

[Leif]

Give the Kef LS50 Meta and AudioLab 6000a a listen, the combo works well at lower levels, presumably because fhe speakers have a flat frequency response. The combo costs £1,500 at many dealers, or swap out the amp for another you prefer. The actives are nice but you pay more for high power.

 

[DomT]

Most people seem to say that a high efficiency speaker would be better for low volume listening. I have just bought some Snells specifically for this purpose.

Another way of looking at this would be to get some QAcoustics 3020 and something like an Innuos Zen Mini or Pulse and a punchy amp. I used a pair of those 3020s on the end of an Audio Research pre/power amp and they sounded amazing.

 

[RafaFed]

Thank you guys - plenty to think about! Once I move I will try and home demo some of this equipment. Interesting thought about the Kef meta with a separate amp may be preferable than the built in LS50w.

 

[CnoEvil]

Interesting thought about the Kef meta with a separate amp may be preferable than the built in LS50w.

IME. You will struggle to match the performance of the Active version at near the same price.

 

[hearhere]

It looks like I'll be moving to a flat as previous planned move has fallen through; I will have neighbours both above and below.

In a bid to get a decent sounding system that only I can hear I'm after something that sounds good a lower volume levels. I presume something a bit more bass light would be a benefit?

Assuming the move goes ahead the room will be 20' x 13'. The speakers will be firing across the room width ways; seating position around 10' from speakers.

I'll be starting from scratch. Source will be purely music streaming (hopefully higher res & lossless). I would like to be able to hook the system up to the TV for general tv/film watching.

I have lived in flats for decades and have always been reasonably considerate to neighbours. I've only once ever had a complaint, even though I often ask if my neighbours if my music is too loud.

I've never had "modest" speakers and all have offered generous bass – most have featured twin 10" drivers bass , though my early ones had single 15" drivers.

When living in flats, there are clever ways to avoid annoying neighbours without seriously compromising your own listening pleasure. How old is your building and was it purpose-built as flats or a conversion from a single house? Modern flats (such as my present one) have astonishingly good insulation of sound by good floor construction. My previous flat was built around 1900 and had less good insulation but thick fitted carpet with underlay makes things better. Standing speakers on isolation feet such as IsoAcoustic Gaias is far better than spikes as far as noise transmission is concerned.

Playing loudly during daytime is unlikely to annoy neighbours. When they are quietly watching TV or dining is the most troublesome time, so be considerate with the volume control then. Depending on your own and your neighbours' flats’ layouts and their going-to-bed times, you may find that playing loudly very late causes no nuisance.

It's midnight now and I've wound up the volume to entertaining levels (twin 12" bass drivers now!) and I'm not expecting my neighbours to be in the least concerned - in fact I'm sure they can't hear a thing. It's mainly percussive actions such as running children that causes nuisance, or banging of windows or doors. Music very much less so.

One more tip - get good quality beefy full range speakers, but consider an amp with a means of attenuating deep bass for times when you are concerned about neighbours. By attenuating bass, either by tone control, or better by a low frequency filter, you can continue to listen loudly but the lower frequencies (the only ones that travel through the fabric of the building), are missing and neighbours will be happy. My own amp has a Subwoofer switch in Settings, though I don't have subs. Normally I use the "No Subs" setting but if I'm concerned about bass transmission, I select Sub On and select a crossover frequency of about 80 Hz and this prevents all sub-80 Hz from reaching my speakers. You'll be surprised how good the sound still is despite the loss of low frequencies that could travel through your ceiling or floor, even at high volume.

Keep a dialogue going with your neighbours and make them aware of your pleasure in music and your wish to avoid inconveniencing them. Consider inviting them round for a musical evening with a glass or two of wine. But please don’t buy bass-light speakers just because you live in a flat – there’s really no need to do so.

 

[CnoEvil]

@hearhere - I agree and this is basically where I was coming from, but from the other end ie. With a Sub, instead of large drive units.

£3k is a decent budget, but gets swallowed whole when getting a complete system, with speakers that give decent bass.

If one likes how LS50s sound - there is nothing for their cost (new) that I have heard, which gets close to their performance.

All that flexibility you were talking about re Bass, can happen with a Sub. The DSP of the Active LS50s allows a certain amount of tailoring - and if combined with the KC62, the Sub can be dialled in with speakers using the App (while sitting in the listening position).

Then when put on filled stands, one has a very competent system, that has bass that can be tuned to every situation.

Isolating the speakers from the floor and working with the neighbours is all very sensible.

 

[RafaFed]

Thank you both. I will definitely be as considerate as possible and make sure the neighbours above and below me have my number in case my music is too loud.

The flats all have the same layout as far as I'm aware so the living room (where the hifi will be) is above/below their living rooms. It is a purpose built block from the 70s.

I guess what I'm worried about is if it turns out a larger, more bass heavy system does cause an issue I won't be able to make full use of it.

This does also open up the door to a lot more options.... So the fun begins!

Would you suggest I go to a dealer so I can home demo as much equipment as possible? Downside being is this would be more expensive.

 

[DUVET]

I would consider a really decent headphone set up rather change kit you may really like

 

[CnoEvil]

@Rafa - The secret to enjoying music at low levels, is making sure the sound is "Fleshed out". This is what the Loudness Button was for, in amps of the past.

I don't have close neighbours, but my Daughter works from home, so at times, the music has to be turned down. My big Harbeths (12" Bass / 8" Mid) are great a low volumes.

Have you heard the LS50s?

 

[Linear]

Thank you both. I will definitely be as considerate as possible and make sure the neighbours above and below me have my number in case my music is too loud.

The flats all have the same layout as far as I'm aware so the living room (where the hifi will be) is above/below their living rooms. It is a purpose built block from the 70s.

I guess what I'm worried about is if it turns out a larger, more bass heavy system does cause an issue I won't be able to make full use of it.

This does also open up the door to a lot more options.... So the fun begins!

Would you suggest I go to a dealer so I can home demo as much equipment as possible? Downside being is this would be more expensive.

I would consider use of a tone control.

 

[hearhere]

@hearhere - I agree and this is basically where I was coming from, but from the other end ie. With a Sub, instead of large drive units.

Yes if subs have to be resorted to (I much prefer 2 boxes over3 or 4 for 2-channel music), then attenuating the bass at times when neighbours may be disturbed is much easier - simply turn the subs off and leave the main speakers (with their relatively poor bass response) to provide complaint-free listening.

However, take care that small speakers' drivers are not being overloaded as this (sometimes distorted sound) is much more likely to carry through to neighbours. Don't ask me why, but very high quality reproduction seems to be less of an issue than sound of the same volume from speakers and electronics that are working hard, or just not very good. The ghetto-blasters of old were notorious at producing nasty noise that could be counted on to annoy neighbours, even though they often had small drivers!

PS - Cost-wise, small speakers need £££ stands, subs need £££ cabinetry, subs need extra £££ amps, subs need extra £££ cables, subs take up floor space. Look around for floor-standers that have bass drivers the size of the alternative subs' driver and save on stands, cables, boxes, amps, floor space. The used market is full of great floor-standing speakers that are often sold for a fraction of their original price, because they are difficult to ship to new owners. Make a silly offer and you may be rewarded!

 

[savvypaul]

I you're going to compromise a little on bass output, make sure you are rewarded with other strengths. Neither the Quad 57 or original Rega Ela (with Royd driver) will shake the floorboards, but both have wonderful timing and coherence, even at very moderate volumes.

I heard the KEF LS50 a couple of times. You should try them at home before committing the spend.

 

[RafaFed]

Thanks for all the further replies with your thoughts and suggestions.

I will try and home demo as much equipment as possible before pulling the trigger. On paper I still think the LS50w ii represents the best value for money.

 

[Jezzer]

Thanks for all the further replies with your thoughts and suggestions.

I will try and home demo as much equipment as possible before pulling the trigger. On paper I still think the LS50w ii represents the best value for money.

Try not to buy blind. Get a home demo if possible. Unless you’re prepared to move the kit on (usually at a loss). Our theories as to what works ‘on paper’ don’t always play out as expected.