Question Sugden vs Roksan comparable sound?

[VultureSong]

At the start of this year I found this forum very helpful in my move to streaming services. At that time my Sugden SDT-1 was criminally underused. A brief conversation via email with Patrick Miller, where he explained parts were increasingly difficult to source, persuaded me to sell it. Now replaced with a Cambridge Audio MXN10, I’ve paired it with a NJC Audio headphone amp and a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro ‘phones. Sugden are still at the heart of my system, an AU51/Symetra set up paired with Harbeth Compact 7 speakers. I anticipate replacing the remainder of my Sugden kit, but having owned it for over 25 years I’m somewhat out of touch with current trends and being put in the sticks, finding auditioning opportunities is a challenge. I like what I be read about Roksan equipment. I wonder if anyone could offer a view on how the Roksan sound stands in comparison to the familiarity of my current system, please ?

 

[hifinutt]

great to have you vulture , why move away from a superb brand that everyone loves . i am sure roksan is lovely but it wont resell as well nor will it attract the huge devotion that sugden arouses !!! stick with sugden imho .

also you will know many love sugden with harbeth , never ever seen someone raving about roksan with harbeth on the harbeth groups oof which i have been a member for some while

 

[tuga]

great to have you vulture , why move away from a superb brand that everyone loves . i am sure roksan is lovely but it wont resell as well nor will it attract the huge devotion that sugden arouses !!! stick with sugden imho .

All good reasons but not why most of us buy equipment.

 

[tuga]

I like what I be read about Roksan equipment.

My advice is to ignore what you read and go have a listen.
Fiction is entertaining but not really useful.

 

[VultureSong]

Thanks for replying, Tuga. I would always aim to go listen, but there being no Roksan dealers within a considerable distance, I thought some initial guidance on comparison might be a good place to start.

 

[StingRay]

Thanks for replying, Tuga. I would always aim to go listen, but there being no Roksan dealers within a considerable distance, I thought some initial guidance on comparison might be a good place to start.

Which Roksan were you considering. I've heard the Roksan Kandy amp. a few times, it was ok. Why change from Sugden?

 

[garn63]

Careful what you wish for.
Have used Roksan amps on a couple of occasions & indeed am even using Sugden now. Would I swap one for the other. Nah.
Maybe you do fancy a change, but as suggested listen to what you are buying in your own system. Different is not always 'better'.

 

[VultureSong]

Thanks @garn63 and @StingRay. I auditioned different kit for hours back in ‘97 when I ended up with a full Sugden system as the result. Not bad for a company I had never heard of before I was first persuaded to borrow an SDT-1. This step I’ve made into streaming is more than probably behind my questioning my old kit. Over familiarity perhaps makes me think that after 25 years, some thing else might sound better. Any changes I make will definitely be preceded by audtioning, so thanks both for your comments.

 

[JANDL100]

I've limited experience with both brands.
They seem quite distinctively different to me, sounding their best with different genres of music.

I did this review of a Roksan Caspian M2 amplifier back in 2013 which addresses the Roksan's musical approach and abilities.
https://www.hifipig.com/roksan-caspian-m2-integrated-amplifier/

".... It’s the rhythmic ability of the Caspian M2 that really stands out for me and will ensure it many friends and happy owners. Probably not my choice for delicate “girl with guitar” music, where I would like a little more in the way of soundstage depth and tonal sweetness, or even for die-hard classical fans, but play something with rhythmic swagger as its underlying foundation and this amp is bound to please."

I've no idea if these traits were characteristic of the brand or if they persist in Roksan's more recent efforts, but my experience was enough to put me off the brand for my own mainly classical listening.

 

[garn63]

Maybe a service would be a good idea for your Sugden. Bring some magic back that you had forgotten it had.

 

[Rockchild]

Which version of the C7’s are you using? Personally I love the amps you have already and I’d recommend a service unless you want to try an A21SE with the Harbeths.

 

[dari]

Hi Kev. Do you have the original Compact 7s?

I have the original (1999) 7s with Caspian M2. Can answer any questions, but never heard Sugden.

 

[VultureSong]

I've limited experience with both brands.
They seem quite distinctively different to me, sounding their best with different genres of music.

I did this review of a Roksan Caspian M2 amplifier back in 2013 which addresses the Roksan's musical approach and abilities.
https://www.hifipig.com/roksan-caspian-m2-integrated-amplifier/

".... It’s the rhythmic ability of the Caspian M2 that really stands out for me and will ensure it many friends and happy owners. Probably not my choice for delicate “girl with guitar” music, where I would like a little more in the way of soundstage depth and tonal sweetness, or even for die-hard classical fans, but play something with rhythmic swagger as its underlying foundation and this amp is bound to please."

I've no idea if these traits were characteristic of the brand or if they persist in Roksan's more recent efforts, but my experience was enough to put me off the brand for my own mainly classical listening.

That’s very helpful. It was the Caspian M2 I was considering.

 

[VultureSong]

Hi Kev. Do you have the original Compact 7s?

I have the original (1999) 7s with Caspian M2. Can answer any questions, but never heard Sugden.

@dari @Rockchild mine are the HL Compact 7, bought no later than 1999. I’m using Graham Slee Spatia cables, which in themselves improved the sound significantly.

 

[dari]

Looks like we have the same model then.

I just replaced both midbass units for a new Radial 1 (direct from the factory) as one of the drivers was cracked slightly (still sounding as good as always) and that did not pass mu OCD so both drivers got replaced What condition are yours 7s mid-woofers?

 

[graham67]

Hi vulture the symetra monos are top notch amps being more powerful 50w versions of the A21 power amps. They are also very rare.
I suspect fronting these with a high quality pre amp would lift your system to a whole new level. A service of the symetras would probably be in order given their age.

 

[VultureSong]

Looks like we have the same model then.

I just replaced both midbass units for a new Radial 1 (direct from the factory) as one of the drivers was cracked slightly (still sounding as good as always) and that did not pass mu OCD so both drivers got replaced What condition are yours 7s mid-woofers?

I’ve no reason to think the C7s arent performing. Visually they look fine and some audio tests I ran seemed to confirm that. In use I’ve never been concerned with their output at any volume.

 

[VultureSong]

Hi vulture the symetra monos are top notch amps being more powerful 50w versions of the A21 power amps. They are also very rare.
I suspect fronting these with a high quality pre amp would lift your system to a whole new level. A service of the symetras would probably be in order given their age.

I’d agree, just on the basis of ten years having passed since the last service. Although all the components have had repairs during my ownership, they do seem very resilient given their age. After an exchange of emails yesterday with the factory, they recommended two companies for repair. I’ve contacted one and am happy to use them when the time comes. Sugden are currently running a 4 month lead time on service/repair as they prioritise production. Do you have any particular pre amp in mind as a possible replacement for the Au51 please?

 

[MotherSky]

Hi vulture the symetra monos are top notch amps being more powerful 50w versions of the A21 power amps. They are also very rare.
I suspect fronting these with a high quality pre amp would lift your system to a whole new level. A service of the symetras would probably be in order given their age.

This is exactly what I was going to recommend - your Sugden preamp is perfectly serviceable, but (in my experience) is only showing you a fraction of what your power amps are capable of - I use a Modwright LS100 with my relatively humble Sugden power amp, and the results are superb - far beyond what I heard with my original Sugden preamp. I cannot endorse this approach strongly enough

 

[graham67]

The modwright suggestion is good.
The sugden a21 power amp input impedance is 50K so I.would expect the symetra to be similar leaving you with plenty of options.
If you can live with the quirky volume controls a Croft pre would work well as its got a similar low output impedance of 300ohm. Or you can order a one pot version from Croft. Croft also sell lower gain versions which might be better suited to the 1v input sensitivity of the Sugden IIRC.