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SSM

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Happy New 2015 :)

lady-blunt-stradivarius-violin.jpg


...and adieu 2014, which has seen me put together two main systems which reproduce classical music with lots of tonal realism. A chief beneficiary is the violin. Before I was content to have 2-3 different versions of the concertos. Now, especially the last two months, I've been buying nothing but violin concertos recordings, exploring the artistry of current violin virtuosos. I think 2015 will seen me turn into a violin fanatic. :p

One major concerto has finally made its way into my affection and esteem. Elgar's. I didn't quite get it when I first heard it years earlier. It seems you needs to cross over into middle age:p, and lived life, before the themes of this very mature composition start to resonate with you. So this connection is timely then. Even then, I find Elgar's concerto, the lengthiest of all violin concertos, to be an overwhelming stack of violin notes. I'm a Wagnerian used to longueurs, but Elgar's concerto - shorter than a Wagnerian opera act - I find difficult for my mind to grasp its full architecture; all the melodies and themes contained therein. There's something elusive about it. :dunno: The many vignettes of melody are enthralling when emerging from the speakers, but after the system is powered down, I just can't replay the whole concerto in my mind. Bruch's is easy, but Elgar's is 52 mins. :D

Anyway, I have the whole of 2015 to try to assimilate the whole range of emotions in this grand sprawling concertos. :geek:

Seasoned wammers who have longer familiarity with this concerto, you're welcome to share your tips on what it means to you.

Currently I'm liking the James Ehnes version on Onyx and Tasmin Little's on Chandos. Hilary Hahn's with Colin Davis on DG is the iciest thing I've ever heard her do. Avoid.

SS

 

JANDL100

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Ah, the Elgar violin concerto.

I find myself in full agreement, SS, it took years for me to get 'into' it, I'm sure I'm not fully there yet but it is becoming one of my favourites.

I've the 2 Nigel Kennedys, and tried some others and sold on (perhaps I should re-listen now) - but my faves are Ida Haendel / Rattle (CD) and Igor Oistrakh / Zhuk (LP). I was just blown away by Haendel, simply jaw-dropping.

Curious that both violinists are non-British - maybe that's what it takes for the piece to really work for me? :?

MI0002845578.jpg


m2NFya5qMiSRNzRAlObjtqA.jpg


I've not yet heard the 3 you mention.

 

musicbox

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Happy New 2015 :) Hilary Hahn's with Colin Davis on DG is the iciest thing I've ever heard her do. Avoid.

SS
Hahn/Davis/LSO had pretty lukewarm reviews when it came out but I actually find myself liking it a lot - and preferring it to either of Kennedy's.

In all recordings, I love the first two movements especially but the third movement I always struggle with - especially the "accompanied cadenza" bit which just goes on too long IMO.

 

SSM

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Ah, the Elgar violin concerto.I find myself in full agreement, SS, it took years for me to get 'into' it, I'm sure I'm not fully there yet but it is becoming one of my favourites.

I've the 2 Nigel Kennedys, and tried some others and sold on (perhaps I should re-listen now) - but my faves are Ida Haendel / Rattle (CD) and Igor Oistrakh / Zhuk (LP). I was just blown away by Haendel, simply jaw-dropping.
Ooer, I have to check out Ms Haendel's version then. Of the female violinists, she's one of the few who can produce a rich full tone. When I was reading Gramophone's et al recommendations for good stereo recordings of the Elgar, hers doesn't get a mention. Most of the times, the Kennedy/Handley and Kang/Leaper (Naxos) get the nod.

Curious that both violinists are non-British - maybe that's what it takes for the piece to really work for me? :?
Odd that. When reading reviews of various versions, I got the impression only a british violinist can interpret this particular concerto properly. Some english critics are a bit sniffy about the recorded attempts of Yanks Perlman and Zukerman.

I've not yet heard the 3 you mention.
I rather like the sound of Ehnes' Marsick Strad. He plays with a good measure of wistful reflection. The Onyx sonics aren't as top drawer as what Chandos pulled out for Tasmin Little. She plays with a quicker vibrato than Ehnes and against the lush orchestral sound of the RSNO, it's like a canary chirping merrily away. :)

She can be seen on YouTube in a Proms performance of the Elgar with the same conductor Andrew Davis. The dedication of both are wonderful, and there are several comical moments --- Davis's conducting gestures are like a madman's (10:00) :rofl: and Elgar's music seems to have a sexy effect on Little. After the conclusion of key virtuoso passages, she arches her head back, open mouth going 'ahh', like a musical orgasm had occurred (9:20) :shock:

[video=youtube;GbeLqE1Pabk]

[/QUOTE]
 

SSM

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Hahn/Davis/LSO had pretty lukewarm reviews when it came out but I actually find myself liking it a lot - and preferring it to either of Kennedy's.
You reckon? I'm about to order the Kennedy/Handley CD (no download available at Presto:doh:). His Proms performance was the one that finally got me into the doorway of this concerto. I found it a fascinating study in how a violinist could get so absorbed in the music. His eyes were shut most of the times and he seemed to be locked in a world of his own with Elgar's music. Compared to Little's extrovert Proms performance, Nigel's the introverted perspective.

It's still early days for me with this concerto, but it seems to have two facets depending on the sex of the violinist. :doh: Tasmin is trying to recreate Elgar's muse "the lively young girl", while Nigel and Ehnes seem to be brooding over some (unattainable) woman. :dunno:

In all recordings, I love the first two movements especially but the third movement I always struggle with - especially the "accompanied cadenza" bit which just goes on too long IMO.
That's the part that I cannot replay in my mind. Perhaps there are too many themes being shuffled around. Yes, it's rather extended and seems diffuse at times. Perhaps it needs the focus of a master violinist to make it a cogent whole.

I might have to endure mono sound:nerves: and start listening to Sammon's legendary performance to see if he makes sense of it all.

SS

 

musicbox

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I might have to endure mono sound:nerves: and start listening to Sammon's legendary performance to see if he makes sense of it all.

SS
If your gonna go hair-shirt mono, you might as well try the legendary teenage Yehudi Menuhin with Elgar himself conducting - would be interesting to hear you thoughts on that!

 

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The Haendel strikes me as very special -- yet I hadn't even heard of it until I came across it in a charity shop for £1! At first I thought it was a historical performance - that's what Testament usually do - then I noticed a youngish Simon Rattle in the photo.

Check out the Amazon reviews .... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Violin-Concerto-Sibelius/dp/B002E9Y5NS/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1420231725&sr=1-2&keywords=elgar+haendel

And, oh my gosh, when I was getting that Amazon link I saw this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Haendel-Violin-Concerto-Chaconne-Boult/dp/B000009Q2O/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1420231725&sr=1-1&keywords=elgar+haendel :shock:

 

SSM

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If your gonna go hair-shirt mono, you might as well try the legendary teenage Yehudi Menuhin with Elgar himself conducting - would be interesting to hear you thoughts on that!
Menuhin was just a teen on that recording. What does he know about midlife crisis and lost love? :p

No doubt I'll have to listen to that someday, but Sammons' version will be the first mono I'll try.

SS

 

SSM

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That one seems to hold the record for the slowest Elgar VC ever committed to disc. :dunno: I think I'll try the Ida-Rattle one first and come to this Ida-Boult later... when I hit 50. :p

Interesting that Rattle makes it to a Testament release. He's not that ancient of an artist is he? I read that his Elgar with Nigel has slow tempi to rival Boult's too.

SS

 

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If your gonna go hair-shirt mono, you might as well try the legendary teenage Yehudi Menuhin with Elgar himself conducting - would be interesting to hear you thoughts on that!
An essential recommendation. Time stands still, and if you're not careful so will your breathing, in this extraordinary performance. A recording so great that you very quickly forget about the sound quality.

 

JANDL100

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An essential recommendation. Time stands still, and if you're not careful so will your breathing, in this extraordinary performance. A recording so great that you very quickly forget about the sound quality.
Ah, well - I guess I have to try it!

This re-mastering seems to garner praise as the best by a fair margin ... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgar-Bruch-Violin-Concertos-Max/dp/B000026C8A/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1420488096&sr=1-2&keywords=elgar+Menuhin

Ordered for 1p + postage. :)

 

SSM

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An essential recommendation. Time stands still, and if you're not careful so will your breathing, in this extraordinary performance. A recording so great that you very quickly forget about the sound quality.
It's in the public domain now and I had a sneak peek at YouTube. The force of the opening tuttis in the first movement caught me by surprise. :shock: The LSO is on fire here under the direction of the composer himself. The entire performance has a sense of taut cogency, I was compelled to continue to listen through to the very end. I do wonder if this cogency has to do with the inspiration of the occasion, or if the entire ensemble was pushed to perform faster so as to take up less shellac. :p Menuhin's playing is marvellous, but alas the mono sound takes away from the full splendour of his violin tone. Ehnes sounds richer and more multi-dimensional. Elgar's direction is potent, although I'm not sure I gleaned further new insights from Menuhin's playing that Ehnes or Little hasn't already revealed.

I'm buying the legal download of the Naxos edition for further listening/study. It seems the Naxos engineers' remastering of historical violin music is preferable to earlier efforts like EMI's. Will be doing that for the mono Sammons.

SS

 

JANDL100

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Listening to the 1932 Menuhin Elgar now on headphones - sq is pretty good; full-bodied and detailed, certainly not a problem to listen to. I've no idea how much Obert-Thorn's remastering has to do with that as I haven't heard any others.

Nice background "78 swish" ;-) .... Oooo, Menuhin has just come in, lovely tone on the violin, not bright/screechy at all, lovely warm lushness - almost sounds like a viola.

As SSM says, the orchestral playing is big and bold!

Yup, thanks for the reccie - I'm enjoying this. :^

__

Interesting comparing the mvt timings with Haendel / Rattle

M ....... H

17:30 17:03

13:08 11:23

19:27 18:00

So Haendel is a fair bit faster all round - curious as Haendel doesn't sound rushed and Menuhin doesn't sound slow at all! Menuhin seems to vary the pacing rather more, I think, slowing down a fair bit for the 'romantic bits'. :)

 

SSM

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Isn't it peculiar how great performances can override ancient recording techniques? I have the Menuhin Nielsen which was recorded 20 years later but the scratchy sonics make it difficult for me to hear the thing through to the end. Unlike this older Elgar/Elgar.

I have purchased Dong-suk Kang's version on Naxos. This was a well regarded recording by Gramophone before it was replaced on the reccommended list by the newer centennial celebratory Ehnes, Shaham and Little versions. I've read other owner's remarks that this is one of the jewels in Naxos catalogue, and yes, it's really rather quite good. :shock: Kang plays with evident commitment and passion, and his playing offers more insights to my ears than Menuhin's. One has to first get used to the tone of his violin. I don't know what violin he uses but it's not always always purely smooth-toned like Ehnes' Marsick Strad. Kang's has a natural abrasive quality in the middle notes, with the result that some passages have a nagging carping quality. :yeah: The good side to this odd violin sound is: the violin seems to go through a wider range of moods - docile, aggressive, moody, 'argumentative', fiery virtuoso-ic. Perhaps this is the full warts n all portrait of Elgar's Windflower lass?

I think this one will receive more replays than the Menuhin.

SS

 

SSM

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Any fans of this noted violin personage here?

kavakos_vevey11-362x241.jpg


^ Leonidas Kavakos... those spectacles and straight shoulder-length hair, any relation to Nana Mouskouri? :geek:

He won the Sibelius competition and is acclaimed as the finest interpreter of his concerto. I was looking to purchase his BIS recording (not cheap) of the original and final versions of the Violin Concerto. Then I happened to watch a YouTube vid of his live performance of the concerto. Halfway through, my attention drifted away...:zzzz:That didn't happen with the electrifying Vengerov/Barenboim. I don't play the violin but it seems Kavakos has cleaner articulation of the notes than Vengerov, particularly in the final movement. But he doesn't seem to inject much charisma in his playing, unlike Maxim. Maybe that's his way of providing a clear window into Sibelius' music - that much quoted "glass of clear water". If so, Sibelius' Violin Concerto is actually more boring than Vengerov or Ferras plays it. :p

After that vid glimpse, I'm also hedging on the purchase of his Brahms VC with Chailly. :nerves:

SS

 

SSM

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I have now purchased my sixth recording of Elgar's VC. :shock: Gil Shaham with CSO/Zinman

(Canary Classics)

I don't reckon I'll ever hear a definitive version of this multi-faceted composition, but Shaham's performance rates very highly. It is very affecting and introspective, yet the virtuosic passages are taken in an exciting manner with his tone staying amazingly even throughout. He isn't accompanied by that 'English' orchestral sound that Andrew Davis provides for Tasmin Little and James Ehnes. But Zinman's has a trump card in the CSO's brass. Its ringing clarity gives the climactic moments real impact and grandeur.

Compared to Shaham, Ehnes now sounds a little reticent. He plays with a single prevailing mood throughout - wistful reminiscence. His Marsick Strad sounds very smooth throughout. Shaham, in contrast, gets a wider variety of tones and drama from his Polignac Strad.

I think I'll be listening to Shaham's more often than Ehnes'.

Little/Davis ... Shaham/Zinman

Ehnes/Davis

Kang/Leaper

Menuhin/Elgar

Hahn/Davis

SS

 

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Shaham's tone has to be one of the 'fattest' (full-bodied) around from what I've heard - this can be good and bad, but give it the right piece and it's miraculous. I'm thinking here of his Korngold/ Barber disc with Previn on DG - never heard anything better, so if this is along those lines, I must investigate..

Edit- good old Spotify, just having a shufty

 

SSM

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His has been described as 'husky', I tend to concur with that. On this live recording of the Elgar, Shaham's tone isn't as plush as on his studio DG CDs. What is more apparent is his commitment and the affecting tone he displays in abundance here.

I just realized I'm a bit of a Shaham fan, looking at his presence in my music collection. That Korngold/Barber isn't a part of it yet, due to... yes, my apprehension of having to hear Previn in his Sluggish Old Age. But I'll be having that this year then, since you rate Shaham's playing so much. :)

You are unlikely to be disappointed with Shaham's Elgar. It is a good advocate for this lovely VC.

cheerSS

 

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