Sorry , I just can't get Jazz

Tony_J

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What you need is a 'two Johns' evening. Assorted John Surman and John Abercrombie. That'll put you off modern jazz forever. I love it, but I only know one or two others who do.
I was fortunate enough to see John Surman playing with Jack DeJohnette in London quite a few years ago - utterly stunning gig. But yes, the number of people that would appreciate their particular brand of jazz is quite small!

 

awkwardbydesign

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The only time I saw John Surman was in 1974 at the Roundhouse (I think) as part of SOS.  The same bill as Ian Carr, whom I actually went to see.  I left London that year for Anglesey so the last gig for a long time.  The next gig I went to was in the early '80s when I was living in Manchester; Ian Carr again. His album "Roots" is an all time favourite, so is the cover.

 

awkwardbydesign

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And I found that appreciation of "jazz instruments" can be very system dependent.  I used to hate trumpet until I got a system that played it well.  It can still hurt if the recording or system set up are not sympathetic.

 
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'Jazz is my 'go-to' genre, especially at night (something to do with atmosphere I suppose, but I dont know).

But, like Greybeard, its limited. In my case to 2 main periods: Swing (I'm a competition standard jiver) and Bebop/Hard Bop.

Both major on rhythm, or 'rhythms'.

I like some jazz singers the most popular of which are women, once they got a foot in the door: (Ella without the scat, Dina Washington, Sara Vaughan, Amy Winehouse). Then there were the male 'shouters' such as Joe Turner and Cab Callaway - immensely popular with Lindy Hoppers (I can do  some partner Charleston).

I find it really interesting that Audio Al et al., dont 'get it'. I think that's stronger than 'dont like it'.  Speculating, it wouldnt surprise me if differences in musical taste (let's use Ian's term) reflect or are reflections of different ways of assembling a hifi system. 'Separates' lend themselves to blending and the process of upgrading is really a sifting of the mix in order to end up with a system that you like more, or, is more to your 'taste'.

For example, there's a bunch of us who meet on the South Coast who all have expensive and well sorted systems, but which all sound different. One might hypothesise that the sifting mechanism/process should produce homogeneity or at least some convergence, but it doesnt seem to have.

This leads to the question - do we all have distinguishable 'tastes' in music that are related to the sound of our hifi systems. For instance my system is 'high efficiency' and uses SET amplification and backloaded horn floorstanders and I'm into jazz and blues; 2 of us have electrostatics; Ian (Baggawire) is less keen on electrostatics and favours Yamaha NS1000s and is keen on jazz (as we know), Lurch is eclectic. We are all vinyl lovers.

The answer to that question is 'no', probably not. And the area is under researched and too complex to analyse (though one I am frequently thinking about). Is it 'personality' related or is there a link with sense of humour?

Some men and women can dance (to music) and some cant and arent even moved to dance (by music).

Something's going on because everything is caused. Just dont know what...

Jack NSM

 
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toms wait

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Like the OP I have tried.  I have had various Coltrane and Davies CD's but gave up.

I like jazz that isn't jazz like early EBTG and Joe Jackson and Tom Waits things that real jazz fans would consider they are to Jazz what knitting is to sky diving, not related!

What I can never get is as the OP said 5 or more or less people playing what they want with a trumpet/double bass/drum solo thrown in somewhere often every track.  

I was once, note once, taken to a Liverpool jazz club when I was a student and I have never been so bored ever in a concert, except perhaps when I was at a brass band competition and they all play the exact same song..  Endless double bass solos and the audience really digging it in the fast show stylee.

I have taken to referring to jazz as "goose strangling"  as in the sound it makes

 
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Phobic

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'Jazz is my 'go-to' genre, especially at night (something to do with atmosphere I suppose, but I dont know).

But, like Greybeard, its limited. In my case to 2 main periods: Swing (I'm a competition standard jiver) and Bebop/Hard Bop.

Both major on rhythm, or 'rhythms'.

I like some jazz singers the most popular of which are women, once they got a foot in the door: (Ella without the scat, Dina Washington, Sara Vaughan, Amy Winehouse). Then there were the male 'shouters' such as Joe Turner and Cab Callaway - immensely popular with Lindy Hoppers (I can do  some partner Charleston).

I find it really interesting that Audio Al et al., dont 'get it'. I think that's stronger than 'dont like it'.  Speculating, it wouldnt surprise me if differences in musical taste (let's use Ian's term) reflect or are reflections of different ways of assembling a hifi system. 'Separates' lend themselves to blending and the process of upgrading is really a sifting of the mix in order to end up with a system that you like more, or, is more to your 'taste'.

For example, there's a bunch of us who meet on the South Coast who all have expensive and well sorted systems, but which all sound different. One might hypothesise that the sifting mechanism/process should produce homogeneity or at least some convergence, but it doesnt seem to have.

This leads to the question - do we all have distinguishable 'tastes' in music that are related to the sound of our hifi systems. For instance my system is 'high efficiency' and uses SET amplification and backloaded horn floorstanders and I'm into jazz and blues; 2 of us have electrostatics; Ian (Baggawire) is less keen on electrostatics and favours Yamaha NS1000s and is keen on jazz (as we know), Lurch is eclectic. We are all vinyl lovers.

The answer to that question is 'no', probably not. And the area is under researched and too complex to analyse (though one I am frequently thinking about). Is it 'personality' related or is there a link with sense of humour?

Some men and women can dance (to music) and some cant and arent even moved to dance (by music).

Something's going on because everything is caused. Just dont know what...

Jack NSM
I think I'm pushing for a fairly neutral sounding system but I'm with others who can't get into Jazz, I've tried very very hard and have explored lots of different genres of it.

I really don't like the randomness, lots of people playing very different pieces of music at the same time, drives me nuts.

There are only 2 real exceptions that I've come across, time out and Koln concert, these 2 albums are both in my top 20 all time albums (koln is top 3).

On paper I think I should like it given my eclectic taste, but I just struggle with it.

Help!

 
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Baggawire

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It's impossible to distil a genre down into a single recording but leaving aside the ubiquity of "Take Five" and "Kind of Blue" if you want a recording that's a prime example of the golden age of late 50s/early 60s hard bop jazz then you can't go wrong with Herbie Hancock's "Takin' Off" - his first LP as band leader on the famous Blue Note label from 1962. It has great swing all the way through, mostly mid-tempo compositions and the solo-ing by Freddie Hubbard (trumpet), Dexter Gordon (tenor sax) and Herbie himself (piano) is nice and loose but never strays too far from the rhythm patterns laid down by the drum and bass (provided by Billy Higgins and Butch Warren respectively).

And  it's worth mentioning that "Takin' Off" has recently been given a top notch repress as part of the Blue Note 80 series of all analogue masters. Sounds magnificent to my ears.

In short, if "Takin' Off" doesn't do it for you then jazz probably isn't your thing but it's a great gateway to the many delights of the Blue Note label and beyond if it does.

 

Phobic

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right, I've just stuck takin off on and the very 1st track is great, loving it, it musical, fun, & engaging.

why is it then whenever I try and dig deeper into jazz it all goes a bit deliverance?!

 

Von Krolock

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My Nephew won the 1st BBC Jazz young musician award and said (privately) that people don't like it because it sounds like the musicians are being self-indulgent...
I was at the 2014 final & in awe of the musicianship of the finalists & the backing band but didn't quite understand the music.

 
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garn63

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For some one who loves music & is prepared to dig a bit Jazz can be very rewarding.  Streaming services are offering the opportunity to explore the vast array of titles available within the genre.   I, (like many) dont know how I arrived at liking Jazz music but am glad I did.   I have no great knowledge of the music but know what tickles my fancy as we all do.   I guess I am writing this because I now have 5 playlists some 4 or 5 hours long.   It's taken over in quantity from my love of electronic  music in my library.      I usually head in the direction (I think) I want to go & end up saving 5% of music that I listened to.   It takes some listening & a v.slow accumulation of tunes but the rewards are great.  I feel very fortunate to have discovered jazz music.

Just maybe....our lifestyle & commitments, even who we think we are, have some bearing on the music we listen to ?  Wish I was alive when Jazz was "happening" but the next best thing is to unashamedly make time to listen to it whenever I want to.   Fortunately I can now :) Its marvellous.    M.

 
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I'm a jazz lover. My dad is and was always into it big time. Saw Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, and Horace Silver Quintet at Ronnie Scotts in approx. 1987.

Loved it. Over the next thirty years I liked it but often struggled with the playback of sax and trumpet on a hi-fi; just too screechy sometimes.

Over the past four or five years it's become my go-to genre. Sun Ra even gets a good listen. Sax and trumpet now sounds great; I think both my ears have adjusted and my system has become more suitable.

Perhaps what helped me is being a huge Grateful Dead listener, they meander and noodle a plenty live, or did. 

Heard an interview with Bob Weir where he mentioned many Deadheads would end up listening to jazz. Well, he was right with me.

Age counts too, the fast beat of garage rock, punk etc is often too fast for me these days. Reggae often sounds simplistic in comparison. 

I think the major moment for me was starting to appreciate open ended/many avenues music rather than the one direction of most rock or dance.

That said, I can understand why folk don't dig jazz! 

 
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garn63

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"That said, I can understand why folk dont dig Jazz".

Its because you have to listen to it and majority of folks only want to hear a nice noise  xD   As well as liking the structure/groove Jazz taught me to truly appreciate the musicianship & mind, (often a self taught person) who had to excel to play like I can hear today ? Work bloody hard too.   A gift/ legacy for my pleasure. Marvellous.

 
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