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anatius

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What were you using before the Naim Fraim? I'd like to hear more about the "spectacular improvement." I'm finding that there are definitely sonic gains to be had by making very small increases in rigidity and stability of the rack. Naim seem to have gone to the nth degree on this with the Fraim.
@akamatsu you may find accessing this link to your advantage https://aglifter.co.nz . Also Stack Audio limited make Speaker isolation feet which received a rave review from Hans Beekhuyzen.
 
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akamatsu

Michael
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@akamatsu you may find accessing this link to your advantage https://aglifter.co.nz . Also Stack Audio limited make Speaker isolation feet which received a rave review from Hans Beekhuyzen.
Would these products move things towards more rigid, lightweight, and stable? Every step in the direction of more rigid, lightweight and stable has resulted in less loss of musical information. As an example, at one point, I added washers to the spikes. I did weigh in my mind the trade off between more rigidity provided and the added weight of the washers. The washers did made a positive difference, so the added rigidity outweighed the additional weight penalty.
 
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anatius

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akamatsu

Michael
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@akamatsu, Please read this link regarding the AUVAS speaker isolation feet which the company claim provide absolute rigidity for loudspeakers up to 275lbs. Depending on your floors surface the purchaser will be provided with spikes. https://stackaudio.co.uk/new-auva-speaker-isolators/
Too gimmicky and lacking in technical merit for me. I don't see a problem that needs solving. My speakers are rock solid stable on spikes, and I don't see the need to isolate the floor from the vibrations of the speaker. The floor is of a much lower impedance than the speakers. Therefore, the floor is used to hold the speakers steady.

But I do appreciate your reaching out with a suggestion. However, my speakers are set up the best they can be. Again, I don't see how to make them more stable than they already are.
 

anatius

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Would these product move things towards more rigid, lightweight, and stable? Every step in the direction of more rigid, lightweight and stable has resulted in less loss of musical information. As an example, at one point, I added washers to the spikes. I did weigh in my mind the trade off between more rigidity provided and the added weight of the washers. The washers did made a positive difference, so the added rigidity outweighed the additional weight penalty.
@ akamatsu, I don't have an engineering background; my understanding is that the A G Lifter products are designed to isolate the equipment from the shelving as well as control vibrations; as far as I know he does not use spikes. their website explains the rationale behind their products design.
 
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anatius

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That's easy: a quick trip to Germany :p No seriously, if you are interested, I could arrange it for you.
It may be a question of what the ply is called in Australia the plywood we use for making speaker cabinets is called Marine Ply maybe that is the name used in the States for 16 ply.
 
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akamatsu

Michael
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@ akamatsu, I don't have an engineering background; my understanding is that the A G Lifter products are designed to isolate the equipment from the shelving as well as control vibrations; as far as I know he does not use spikes. their website explains the rationale behind their products design.
If the equipment is sitting on some heavy furniture that would vibrate due to sound waves hitting it, then I could see the need for vibration isolation. But this would be a compromise. However, domestic considerations sometimes trump sound quality. Linn's recommendation, which I have followed to an extreme here is to minimize the vibrational energy in the stand. Lightweight, rigid, and stable will do just that. So the component is held as steady as is practicable so that the effect of sound waves hitting it are minimized.

One thing that never gets mentioned by those selling vibration isolation products is that isolators are rather frequency specific. I once read here someone suggested using isolators under components to isolate from floor vibrations. A typical fundamental frequency of a floor is about 2 Hz. It would take a rather large isolator to work at that low a frequency. Absolutely not practicable or even needed.
 
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akamatsu

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I'm finding the best results are had by focusing on the air borne sound waves, and not structural vibrations. You want the circuit boards to be as motionless as possible in space. Vibration is just movement. You reduce movement by holding things steady, not by letting them move.
 
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akamatsu

Michael
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Milled and dressed to perfect size from the vendor? Finished too?
I received three 50 cm by 50 cm sheets. I took them to a shop and had them cut down to 35 cm by 45 cm. Four fresh sides were cut. I did hit them with 220 grit sandpaper, but only lightly as the faces were already smooth.
 

akamatsu

Michael
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I put the new shelves into service two days ago. I didn't do any adjustment to the spikes at that time. That evening, I could hear additional detail, mainly in the bass. But overall, I wasn't blown away and thought it to simply be a subtle improvement. Yesterday, I leveled each component on the new platforms. I also did my best to insure even pressure at each spike, so that the load is distributed evenly. Apparently, this and additional adaptation time made a very noticeable improvement. Last night spinning vinyl revealed additional musical detail across all frequencies, but especially in the bass. I was getting house vibrating bass at reasonable volume. Mind you this is with all absorption settings at 0%, and the optimisation preference slider at 85/15 in Space Optimisation. I'm completely thrilled at the result. I'm hearing very nice improvement with both LP and DS playback.

Overall, an excellent upgrade. I ended up spending a total of US$345. This included purchase, shipping from Germany, a few extra Euros to say "thank you," and the cutting.

A special thanks to @Tendaberry for offering and for making all this happen. He fronted the purchase, and shipped to me. He had some supply issues to deal with but persevered and made it happen. Thank you Tendaberry! :)
 

akamatsu

Michael
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Before installation, I weighed the new shelves (well, just one of them); same as the seven ply stuff. So the sound quality improvement is due to the 16 ply plywood being more rigid. This stands to reason. The more rigid shelves would vibrate at a higher frequency with less energy and amplitude than lower frequency. This would impart less vibration/movement to the components.

Ignoring the movement of the stand structure as it would be minuscule compared to the vibration of the shelves, I have brain modeled the shelf vibration as a span between spike and component foot, analogous to a guitar string, fixed at the spike, and heavily damped at the foot. More rigid would be analogous to tightening the guitar string. Higher frequency equates to less displacement (amplitude).
 
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