The Class A/B and D Conclusion UPDATE Luxman Arrival

Rockchild

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So this is from my other thread about Class D make or break and now I have the Primare to hopefully improve on my thoughts about Class D ten years ago.

Ancillaries used it this test was all digital. Restek Concret CD, Cambridge 851N Network player, VDH cables (The Sea T3 and D352), Harbeth Super HL5 + and standard kettle plugs.
After a short while, it became apparent that the Restek was clearly streets ahead sonically than the 851, I just used CD.

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The Primare pitches against one of my favourite class A/B amps in the shape of the Exposure 3510 (£2200). 110w into 8ohms and typical Exposure topology although it sounds less like an Exposure typically would.
Many Exposure amps were criticised for being a bit brash and in yer face but often the positives outweighed the negatives.
Not so here, Exposure have produced an amp that is capable of satisfying the hardest of rock fans then over to jazz/blues, classical or whatever you fancy throwing at it. The 3510 is a master of all tastes. Is it perfect? Of course not, is any amp? What it does do though, is give a well balanced powerful presentation with strong deep bass and accurate imagery. It makes my Harbeths really find their feet and compliments them really well. I don’t find the amp ‘wanting’ or under stress at anytime and overall, I think the Exposure can compete with similar class A/B amps costing a fair bit more. It’s simple In layout but build quality is first class.
It’s been in my system for well over six months and continues to impress.

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Ok, over to the Class D Primare i35. (£3450) This is the bare version with no DAC or Prisma network card. It’s new so was powered up today and left on for several hours lightly playing in the background.
Surprisingly, was warm when I returned to it @DomT , similar to the Exposure.
Plenty of inputs including two balanced and the digital display has a few menus where you can assign sources and set volume levels with increased individual gain settings (nice touch).
Build is also first class and the facia is beautiful and carefully machined and just like the R35 phonostage I discussed in another thread, looks a lot more expensive.
This amp is nearly £1200 more than the Exposure thanks to the recent price increase but I understand that Exposure will be putting up their prices very soon so the gap will be less. You may ask why the i35 and not the i25 for a fair fight? Well, simply because the i35 is a 150w design which doubles on a 4ohm load. Tests have stated it’s well above its claimed output and with the 6ohm load of the Harbeths, it’s closer to 200wpc.

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Ok, here we go…

I used the same CD’s as I did with the Exposure

Heather Nova, Redbird
Muse,The Second Law
Cigarettes after Sex, Cry
Arctic Lake, what you may find
Jennifer Warnes, Famous blue Raincoat

Volume matched, (75dB), sit back and play…

Wow! Huge power presence! Clear, defined and detailed presentation. I can see what the extra power can achieve! Is this a quick impressive short term improvement I ask? No, each CD demonstrated improvement and detail with spot on timing with a strong and evenly controlled bass line. Vocals were portrayed more into the room and the midrange was well integrated with excellent crossover. After a short while, the Primare was slightly brighter but not excessive but I think this was down to the newness of the amp and may improve over time.
There was no sign of mechanical traits I noticed in old D class amps and like the exposure, retained emotional involvement.
There is a track on the Muse album which goes extremely low to the point of bass bloom with the Exposure and the Sugden amp I have too. The Primare controlled this much better and realised the deep notes with greater authority.

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This is the first impressions and although not perfect in every area (what is), the Primare has changed my thoughts on class D more positively and I found myself listening at 90dB near the end of my time! At no time did I feel the Primare struggle. In fact, I felt the room wasn’t big enough for its huge soundstage and control.

A basic if honest small review then. More to come as it beds in and some Puritan mains cables to try which I acquired cheap.
Also, in a few weeks, it will be running against an Audio Research DSI200.

Both amps here are great, I could live with either but the Primare has got me wanting to listen more and more tonight.
 
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HouseElf

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That‘s a great write up. I have still to hear a Class D amp I have enjoyed - sounds like the Primare could buck that trend. If it can go toe to toe with the Exposure and come out on top it must be pretty special.

A keeper?
 
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Rockchild

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That‘s a great write up. I have still to hear a Class D amp I have enjoyed - sounds like the Primare could buck that trend. If it can go toe to toe with the Exposure and come out on top it must be pretty special.

A keeper?
Like anything, first listens impress so once it’s had two or three days run time, I’ll know more. I’m leaving it on tonight playing Radio Paradise to speed things up.
It’s really gelling with the Harbeths and I’ll have a play with some cables over the weekend. If it works out, I’ll trial the DAC and Prisma plug in cards and loose the Cambridge for a lower box count.
What I will say is the 27 year old Restek CDP is going nowhere. It’s really shining on the Primare.
 

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Hi RC, I have the Primare i35 and I agree it's a great amp. I have christened it 'the Swedish Architect' for its ability to lay a big soundstage and populate it with plenty of fine detail. It is the definition of neutral in my book - not bright. Its 150w gives it plenty of drive and grunt. Looks fab too.

It's comparable to the Lemma Tucana ii (also 150w and class AB), but the Leema just wins out in my book with a bit of extra meat on the bones and a bit more warmth.

There are of course class D amps with different sounds. I used to have a Roksan Oxygene class D amp and that was very good too, with a rich (almost tube like?) sound - all Roksans seem to be warm sounding. Very different to the Primare i35. In my view it suffered from a narrow 'between the speakers' soundstage though.
 

Rockchild

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Hi RC, I have the Primare i35 and I agree it's a great amp. I have christened it 'the Swedish Architect' for its ability to lay a big soundstage and populate it with plenty of fine detail. It is the definition of neutral in my book - not bright. Its 150w gives it plenty of drive and grunt. Looks fab too.

It's comparable to the Lemma Tucana ii (also 150w and class AB), but the Leema just wins out in my book with a bit of extra meat on the bones and a bit more warmth.

There are of course class D amps with different sounds. I used to have a Roksan Oxygene class D amp and that was very good too, with a rich (almost tube like?) sound - all Roksans seem to be warm sounding. Very different to the Primare i35. In my view it suffered from a narrow 'between the speakers' soundstage though.
Also a lot depends on the speakers/room etc used to create the sound we hear. Many times I’ve heard things that sound awful at a dealer but transformed at home.
 

paulbfd

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Any chance you could blag a Gato DIA-250S?! Would be interested to see how these two compare!
 
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GLB

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I had a listen to the Primare Pre 35 and was very impressed , it was partnered with a mac 275 mrk v also lovely , on the subject of the Gato Jules used to own one he now owns the said AR I200 CLASS D , so sure he can make a comparison .
 

CnoEvil

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You seemed to have gone through a very similar journey to myself.

ie. Love Class A (and high bias AB) and very sceptical of Class D (which had always left me a bit detached from the emotion in the music).

Roll on Harbeth ownership and a Class D amp appearing on my radar, that seemed to buck the trend associated with the topology.

I got very similar results to you - and the Harbeths relished the power and control.....so I'm not in the least surprised at your initial findings - especially given @Nopiano's description of his.
 
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Three sheds

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What it does do though, is give a well balanced powerful presentation with strong deep bass and accurate imagery
This certainly aligns with my own findings back when I home demoed the previous Exposure 3010SD2. The 3510 by all accounts is a good step up.

It's interesting how incremental gains in amplification give that extra control. I have the Exposure 3010 Pre & 2 x Monos which are rated at 100w but have been tested at 143w. I have often wondered whether I would notice any discernable difference with the Leema Tucana (150w) - and your comments on the Primare reminded me of that. And then @Bigwig07 mentioned them which got me thinking about amp upgrades, but I have to remind myself that I really don't need one. :)
 

DomT

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@Rockchild Jon I just shared my standmount mega shootout thread in another thread and when I reread the conclusion I wrote that the Marantz PM10 (class D) controlled the Harbeth M30.2XD much better than the Accuphase E380 class A/B. Maybe class D and Harbeth is a great match?
 

Rockchild

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@Rockchild Jon I just shared my standmount mega shootout thread in another thread and when I reread the conclusion I wrote that the Marantz PM10 (class D) controlled the Harbeth M30.2XD much better than the Accuphase E380 class A/B. Maybe class D and Harbeth is a great match?
This seems to be the case over on the HUG Forum although I don’t like AS dictating lol
I wonder what amps they will be using at the Bristol show?

I want to make sure I don’t loose the emotional element of the sound so tomorrow’s session will tell me that. I don’t expect it to be the same but different but in a good way.
 
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