Power Cables w.t.h?

[Warszawa]

For me, mains cables are like that cherry on the cake after you’ve done every other tweak.

No, they’re the paper case on the cake. The cherry adds flavour.

 

[Jazid]

Gotta do better on you're trolling. You're currently about 2/10

Thanks, we can all learn from a pro.

 

[savvypaul]

I wondered what those stains were caused by

Kid Creosote and his Coconuts?

 

[martinpix]

A good power cable can make a big difference in some hifi and makes no difference in others it's weird and is trial and error

 

[bencat]

Sadly as with lots of things cables , fuses , valves or solid state , vinyl or digital and many others there are very different views all of which are right and all of which are wrong except mine . In most cases (because there will always be someone who says different) we all either listen to our systems on our own or with friends and family .
So if you are spending the money and making the choices then go with what you hear and what makes you happy and know that you have made the correct choice . If you hear better cables and they enhance your listening pleasure then if you can afford them buy them and enjoy .

This is just saying that each of us hears and responds to music in a different way no one else ever before or in the future will ever hear exactly as you do and the ultimate thing you need to do is please yourself and get and enjoy your system .

With regard to posting about it then I think this is a little different and I hopw what i try to do is explain and say what I heard and at the end what I think is a good thing worthy of others to listen to . Just that not saying what I did will work for everyone in every system and with all music as you can never know this . Mains cables have in my view a very small contribution to make and most of mine are used Russ Andrew / Isotek / Amazon Audiophile (allegedly) specials most cost around £20 - £30 so not wildly expensive but they are all very solidly well made and give me peace of mind and above all they are safe . Others may well be better but I have settled for what I curently have as were I am staying and I buy more music instead .

 

[marko]

Things will probably become simpler when you realise the difference is imaginary

Agree. I tried a couple of pricey power cables some years ago. Made no difference whatsoever, other than a lighter bank balance!

 

[hearhere]

Yes indeed. I used to say the same thing until I tried it.

But we've all tried these things but we are always being told that a costly cable will be better. If you are expecting this and you've parted with a pile of cash, of course it sounds better! Just like fuses others are talking about. In fact it's always much better to spend money where it really will make a difference - better kit, especially in the speaker department. [another can of worms - sorry]

 

[bencat]

But we've all tried these things but with no expectation that a costly cable will be better. If you are expecting this and you've parted with a pile of cash, of course it sounds better! Just like fuses others are talking about. Always best to spend money where it really will make a difference - better kit, especially in the speaker department. [another can of worms - sorry]

As I tried to explain that is your view and what you expect . You or I have no idea what that poster either really expected or heard , why do you feel the need to say they are wrong ? Or phrase things in way that suggests only your way is correct ? There are so many ways any of us can get musical happiness and if they result in your musical pleasure then they are all right . It is fair and balanced to express a counter view and even produce scientific evidence to confirm why you believe this . It is also okay once to say this is all in the buyers mind and induced because of the money involved . I have no confident idea of conviction that that view is wrong but not do I believe It is right it is just a view . Once these have been trotted out there is no need to add them again in the hope repetition will make them true .

 

[on the rocks]

The only plausible (to my engineer’s mind) reason for mains cables, as opposed to the rest of the house electrics having an impact is screening to avoid interference from nearby electronics, screening shouldn’t be expensive.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

All of it is subjective from my view anyway, I've heard plenty of systems that people have raved about and wondered what all the fuss is about... None of it can be purely scientific otherwise by this point of hifi evolution all hifi would measure and therefore sound the same right

Considering that hearing, particularly music, IS subjective, why is the term used in a derogatory sense? "Science" is a method of arriving at an understanding, which is why it is (correctly) referred to as the scientific method. It shouldn't be a religion, but is promoted and defended as such, here and elsewhere. And ultimately "scientific conclusions" are held on faith, not experience.
The "reality" of hearing IS the subjective experience. But both are subject to confirmation bias, sadly.

 

[Beobloke]

The only plausible (to my engineer’s mind) reason for mains cables, as opposed to the rest of the house electrics having an impact is screening to avoid interference from nearby electronics, screening shouldn’t be expensive.

This is not an unreasonable point.

However, 50p worth of capacitors in the PSU of the equipment will do exactly the same job and any PSU designed by anyone with even half a clue as to what they’re doing will already include them.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

This is not an unreasonable point.

However, 50p worth of capacitors in the PSU of the equipment will do exactly the same job and any PSU designed by anyone with even half a clue as to what they’re doing will already include them.

And then the bean counters will change them. But try some 50p caps in valve PSUs and hear what happens.

 

[Metatron]

Yes indeed. I used to say the same thing until I tried it.

Do your research with proper scholastic studies.

Even cable unbelievers hear differences in cables, at least time to time. Where any mental question of a difference exists, the brain will create one you will experience, unless the process becomes controlled where you do not know which cable is in use. Even people aware of the phenomena, will experience differences. The brain conjures differences, especially if you are looking for them.

Unfortunately it means blind testing, which most audiophiles cannot be bothered to do. Why eludes me. It's an opportunity to learn about the fallibilty of human perception and a lot about human psychology and ultimately saves people money for things that do make real differences.

Most people who do not believe in cable differences and are audiophiles started from an open-minded position, so have tried and experienced differences. Just those differences always go away when testing is blind.

And now and again, sombody claims to have blind tested and can tell differences still. There is a $1,000,000 prize up for grabs for many years now to anybody who can do this under controlled conditions. The fact nobody has claimed the prize should tell everybody something.

Edit: for those who cannot be faffed with controlled tests, sure, rely on the typical perception and enjoy the blue pill experience. Just don't espouse cable differences as real. You have chosen to stay in the matrix.

I'm out.

 

[Nativebon]

Fantastic thanks George. It was infact the Puritian Audio Classic cable that made a substantial difference to my pre amp but sounded worse on power amp. This is the part that's bemused me!

I was one of those who bought a pair of the Puritian Audio Classic after George's review and experience similar. Made improvement to my DAC but sounded a bit soft and fuzzy with my amp.

I'm sure this is the reason we try things out and come to our own conclusions.
Firstly, I don't think any one has the combination of electronics plugged into the mains like I do.

It's all very up in the air, but same time, 'all in your head' does not gel when the out come is not one-sided.

 

[DomT]

Does anyone remember this article in HiFi+. Basic system with specialist interconnects and supports system.

http://www.musicworks-hifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/AWhifiplus.pdf

 

[Tarzan]

Just wait until you put a directional £4000 fuse in the plug.

Get your facts right it is a £4200 fuse.

 

[Tarzan]

Does anyone remember this article in HiFi+. Basic system with specialist interconnects and supports system.

http://www.musicworks-hifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/AWhifiplus.pdf

They also done a system similar to that with Copland components and Nordost cabling.

Mind you l have a couple of Nordost power cords and in the right conditions can sound blooming nice.

 

[DomT]

Do your research with proper scholastic studies.

Even cable unbelievers hear differences in cables, at least time to time. Where any mental question of a difference exists, the brain will create one you will experience, unless the process becomes controlled where you do not know which cable is in use. Even people aware of the phenomena, will experience differences. The brain conjures differences, especially if you are looking for them.

Unfortunately it means blind testing, which most audiophiles cannot be bothered to do. Why eludes me. It's an opportunity to learn about the fallibilty of human perception and a lot about human psychology and ultimately saves people money for things that do make real differences.

Most people who do not believe in cable differences and are audiophiles started from an open-minded position, so have tried and experienced differences. Just those differences always go away when testing is blind.

And now and again, sombody claims to have blind tested and can tell differences still. There is a $1,000,000 prize up for grabs for many years now to anybody who can do this under controlled conditions. The fact nobody has claimed the prize should tell everybody something.

Edit: for those who cannot be faffed with controlled tests, sure, rely on the typical perception and enjoy the blue pill experience. Just don't espouse cable differences as real. You have chosen to stay in the matrix.

I'm out.

Even the scientists on here state that Blind Testing has to be done properly and needs more than one person doing the listening and so for any consumers it’s a complete waste of time.

Of course as a musician I must ask this question. If it’s not possible to hear differences reliably between two pieces of HiFi eg a DAC or cables then how does a conductor do their job? Or a mix engineer? Particularly a mix engineer as they are dealing with sometimes tiny differences. Ears are ears and function quite well.

The value in any comments about differences between items is about how informative they are. Comments like better are meaningless. Have a read of some of my comparison write ups of DAC amps speakers etc.

 

[rabski]

Conductors and the like are sensitive to pitch changes and timing, but then so are most of us.

Double-blind testing for power cables would be impossible. You'd need duplicate equipment, which could not be guaranteed as totally identical. On the other hand, any tests using the same piece equipment would need it to be powered down and powered back up again, which would straight away make any DBT hopeless.

If there are differences, they are going to be small, and in terms of presentation. Good luck 'proving' that.

 

[Lawrence001]

Even the scientists on here state that Blind Testing has to be done properly and needs more than one person doing the listening and so for any consumers it’s a complete waste of time.

Of course as a musician I must ask this question. If it’s not possible to hear differences reliably between two pieces of HiFi eg a DAC or cables then how does a conductor do their job? Or a mix engineer? Particularly a mix engineer as they are dealing with sometimes tiny differences. Ears are ears and function quite well.

The value in any comments about differences between items is about how informative they are. Comments like better are meaningless. Have a read of some of my comparison write ups of DAC amps speakers etc.

If it's me buying a cable for my system, why would I need other people to take part in the blind testing? If the experiment is repeated enough times to make my results statistically significant then that's surely enough?

If I'm trying to find out if the average punter would prefer the cable in the exact system being tested (or just tell the difference) then I can see the point, but if I just want to know if I prefer it in my system what will it achieve?