Linn Owners

Organik in general

Newton John

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There are already several threads on the various incarnations of Organik. In my view, it may well be the most remarkable upgrade that Linn have ever produced. I should temper that statement a little as it builds on other developments such as in my case the Next Generation Hub. Therefore, I am curious to know how other Linn Owners view it regardless of whether they’ve upgraded to it via DS, DSM, 350s, Exaktboxes, Selekt or heard it in a dealer or friend‘s system.

Apologies to those who can’t have it in their systems, yet. I hope I am not being an Organik bore here. After living with it for nearly two weeks, I think I am now in a position to talk about some of its benefits. During that time it’s got smoother and clearer.

The first thing that struck me was that sounds appear to be located in a wide soundstage with pin point accuracy. Since I moved house a couple of years ago, my system sounded a bit lop sided. I guess this was due to a picture window along almost the entire left side of the room. Someone very experienced in hifi said to me that this is the price I pay for having such great view across Cumbrian countryside.

I have been able to mitigate against this problem with tweaks and careful setup, but wasn’t able to cure it completely. After the Organik upgrade, the lop sidedness has gone altogether. Imagining is rock solid and I have an extremely well defined central image. I was surprised that a DAC upgrade could solve problems with an awkward room - so much for acoustic room treatments.

Secondly, I feel like I can hear deeper into the structure and texture of the music. Strangely, it isn’t just there all the time. I need to remember to focus to hear this much detail. Organik demands active listening. I feel that I’m on a learning curve. I am not entirely satisfied just listening to my favourite albums. I crave unfamiliar and more demanding works. As long as I stay focussed, these are readily accessible. In a few days, I have discovered several new artists on Qobuz.

If I’d been brought into the room blinded, I would probably have thought that the loudspeakers had been upgraded. It certainly gets the very best out of the loudspeakers. Once again, source first rules. I could say much more as I’ve only scratched the surface here. I want leave room for others to contribute. Please tell me your views on Organik. It would be great to achieve a consensus on what it brings to the listening experience. I believe that there is much more to come.

Thanks for indulging me.
 
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HIGHWAY61

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Nobody is coming on here to say any upgrade is making their music sound worse. But of interest would be your take on whether it was worth the money/is good value for money. As we all go up the hi-fi ladder the bang per buck gradually decreases, it would be interesting to get these views from members.
 

HIGHWAY61

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I am sure that it true. Logically every upgrade/improvement should make the music better. But at what cost? All this depends on the depth of each persons pocket. Or in Linnland does the concept of "value for money" not exist ?
 

Moomintroll

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All this depends on the depth of each persons pocket.
Absolutely. It also depends on where each person decides to spend that money.
Or in Linnland does the concept of "value for money" not exist ?
One could ask the same about car manufacturers…

Just because someone chooses to spend whatever the relevant Organik upgrade costs these days, doesn’t mean they will also spend £80K, or £150K or whatever,on a car.

‘troll
 
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Newton John

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Nobody is coming on here to say any upgrade is making their music sound worse. But of interest would be your take on whether it was worth the money/is good value for money. As we all go up the hi-fi ladder the bang per buck gradually decreases, it would be interesting to get these views from members.
You’ve rather missed the point. I was hoping that responses would be somewhat more detailed than simple statements that it makes their music sound better. I want to know how it makes music sound better for each person.

Value is a personal judgement based on number of factors of which wealth is only one. Discussion of this relates to hifi in general rather than Organik in particular. That’s straying way off topic here. You really need to start a new thread about the cost of hifi gear, if that’s what really concerns you.
 
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Moomintroll

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Absolutely, but what is Organik doing for you?
Oh, I see. I’m enjoying a greater variety of music, even BBC Radio 2 is perfectly acceptable. Much less hifi and much more music. Sorry, but I can’t be any more descriptive than that.

Having thought a bit… what struck me during the original demo I had, was how much more lifelike people sounded and how much more focussed things were. I can now hear interplay between musicians, for instance, in terms of how a guitar is being played rather than just what they are playing. Perhaps this is what you’re describing as improved image and greater insight into the structure of the music?

Although it’s difficult to remember what I heard when I first got Organik over then getting the NG KDSM Hub.
 
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akamatsu

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The first thing that struck me was that sounds appear to be located in a wide soundstage with pin point accuracy. Since I moved house a couple of years ago, my system sounded a bit lop sided. I guess this was due to a picture window along almost the entire left side of the room. Someone very experienced in hifi said to me that this is the price I pay for having such great view across Cumbrian countryside.

I have been able to mitigate against this problem with tweaks and careful setup, but wasn’t able to cure it completely. After the Organik upgrade, the lop sidedness has gone altogether. Imagining is rock solid and I have an extremely well defined central image. I was surprised that a DAC upgrade could solve problems with an awkward room - so much for acoustic room treatments.

This bit caught my ear. I too have a room with glass on one adjacent wall. I installed heavy drapes to absorb high frequency sound. I can't recall exactly when but at some point in all the upgrades I noticed less effect of the room on the presentation of the music. I pointed this out here and got agreement from one who had experienced similar. I later read (can't remember where) that increasing the quality of the music signal results in less effect by the room. Something like signal to noise ratio, whereas the music from speaker to ear is signal, and reflected sound is noise. It's like improving the signal diminishes the noise. I no longer think about room acoustic treatment.
 

Newton John

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This bit caught my ear. I too have a room with glass on one adjacent wall. I installed heavy drapes to absorb high frequency sound. I can't recall exactly when but at some point in all the upgrades I noticed less effect of the room on the presentation of the music. I pointed this out here and got agreement from one who had experienced similar. I later read (can't remember where) that increasing the quality of the music signal results in less effect by the room. Something like signal to noise ratio, whereas the music from speaker to ear is signal, and reflected sound is noise. It's like improving the signal diminishes the noise. I no longer think about room acoustic treatment.

I believe it was Hans Beekhyzen who made that claim, Michael. If I remember right, he claimed it was down to a reduction in what he calls time smearing.

I‘ll have a look at his channel and see if I can find the relevant video.
 
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Ben Webster

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The higher on the ladder the more expensive is every step. So it‘s hard to judge the „bang for the buck“ thing.

And the differences are not often „night & day“ and can often recognised in the long run.

Katalyst was the first Linn streamer I listened longer than 30 min. Organik is a significant step (in the Linn world).
 
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pirov

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There are already several threads on the various incarnations of Organik. In my view, it may well be the most remarkable upgrade that Linn have ever produced. I should temper that statement a little as it builds on other developments such as in my case the Next Generation Hub. Therefore, I am curious to know how other Linn Owners view it regardless of whether they’ve upgraded to it via DS, DSM, 350s, Exaktboxes, Selekt or heard it in a dealer or friend‘s system.

Apologies to those who can’t have it in their systems, yet. I hope I am not being an Organik bore here. After living with it for nearly two weeks, I think I am now in a position to talk about some of its benefits. During that time it’s got smoother and clearer.

The first thing that struck me was that sounds appear to be located in a wide soundstage with pin point accuracy. Since I moved house a couple of years ago, my system sounded a bit lop sided. I guess this was due to a picture window along almost the entire left side of the room. Someone very experienced in hifi said to me that this is the price I pay for having such great view across Cumbrian countryside.

I have been able to mitigate against this problem with tweaks and careful setup, but wasn’t able to cure it completely. After the Organik upgrade, the lop sidedness has gone altogether. Imagining is rock solid and I have an extremely well defined central image. I was surprised that a DAC upgrade could solve problems with an awkward room - so much for acoustic room treatments.

Secondly, I feel like I can hear deeper into the structure and texture of the music. Strangely, it isn’t just there all the time. I need to remember to focus to hear this much detail. Organik demands active listening. I feel that I’m on a learning curve. I am not entirely satisfied just listening to my favourite albums. I crave unfamiliar and more demanding works. As long as I stay focussed, these are readily accessible. In a few days, I have discovered several new artists on Qobuz.

If I’d been brought into the room blinded, I would probably have thought that the loudspeakers had been upgraded. It certainly gets the very best out of the loudspeakers. Once again, source first rules. I could say much more as I’ve only scratched the surface here. I want leave room for others to contribute. Please tell me your views on Organik. It would be great to achieve a consensus on what it brings to the listening experience. I believe that there is much more to come.

Thanks for indulging me.
What has been Organik'd in your system? Those of us with Exakt Akubariks are eagerly anticipating the upgrade ...
 

Newton John

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What has been Organik'd in your system? Those of us with Exakt Akubariks are eagerly anticipating the upgrade ...
The Exaktboxes. Needing two made it expensive which is why I’ve waited so long to go ahead. Also, there was a lot of warranty left on my Katalyst boards. I have thought about changing to speakers that only need one Exaktbox. However, the price increases kind of forced my hand.

There are so many people waiting for Organik for Akubariks. I hope Linn sort something out for you.
 

Paulssurround

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There are already several threads on the various incarnations of Organik. In my view, it may well be the most remarkable upgrade that Linn have ever produced. I should temper that statement a little as it builds on other developments such as in my case the Next Generation Hub. Therefore, I am curious to know how other Linn Owners view it regardless of whether they’ve upgraded to it via DS, DSM, 350s, Exaktboxes, Selekt or heard it in a dealer or friend‘s system.

Apologies to those who can’t have it in their systems, yet. I hope I am not being an Organik bore here. After living with it for nearly two weeks, I think I am now in a position to talk about some of its benefits. During that time it’s got smoother and clearer.

The first thing that struck me was that sounds appear to be located in a wide soundstage with pin point accuracy. Since I moved house a couple of years ago, my system sounded a bit lop sided. I guess this was due to a picture window along almost the entire left side of the room. Someone very experienced in hifi said to me that this is the price I pay for having such great view across Cumbrian countryside.

I have been able to mitigate against this problem with tweaks and careful setup, but wasn’t able to cure it completely. After the Organik upgrade, the lop sidedness has gone altogether. Imagining is rock solid and I have an extremely well defined central image. I was surprised that a DAC upgrade could solve problems with an awkward room - so much for acoustic room treatments.

Secondly, I feel like I can hear deeper into the structure and texture of the music. Strangely, it isn’t just there all the time. I need to remember to focus to hear this much detail. Organik demands active listening. I feel that I’m on a learning curve. I am not entirely satisfied just listening to my favourite albums. I crave unfamiliar and more demanding works. As long as I stay focussed, these are readily accessible. In a few days, I have discovered several new artists on Qobuz.

If I’d been brought into the room blinded, I would probably have thought that the loudspeakers had been upgraded. It certainly gets the very best out of the loudspeakers. Once again, source first rules. I could say much more as I’ve only scratched the surface here. I want leave room for others to contribute. Please tell me your views on Organik. It would be great to achieve a consensus on what it brings to the listening experience. I believe that there is much more to come.

Thanks for indulging me.
Great to hear you went ahead with your decision to install Organik for your Klimax Exaktboxes, and enjoying unprecedented performance for your Linn.

I was one of the first people on this forum to review the Organik upgrade in a Klimax DSM/3 A/V and then again with the Organik upgrade for a pair of Klimax 350’s.

In both cases, the Organik upgrade elevated the music listening experience from listening to a recording to listening to real musicians in the room performing. With Organik, the music just sounds right, with everything is more in focus, tonal balance and harmonics, effortlessly recreating the music. Definitely Linn‘s best upgrade, after the Linn Klimax DSM/3.

Given that there is no timeline for release of Organik upgrades for my Akubariks or Akurate Exaktboxes, I have explored other upgrades to tide me over until then, and found some viable options.

I am very much looking forward to seeing what Linn releases this year, with their 50th anniversary, and hope that Organik and Utopik become upgrade options for my Linn.
 

akamatsu

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The higher on the ladder the more expensize is every step. So it‘s hard to judge the „bang for the buck“ thing.

And the differences are not often „night & day“ and can often recognised in the long run.

Katalyst was the first Linn streamer I listened longer than 30 min. Organik is a significant step (in the Linn world).
I have mentioned before what I've been experiencing since getting the Klimax Radikal, and every upgrade since, this includes tweaking space optimisation. I referred to it as "enhanced returns." Gilad did point to this phenomenon in a video interview. At a certain level and above, very small improvements in the signal preservation (less loss of musical information) result in rather large increases in insight to the music. So in my case, I anticipate big improvements in sound quality from any upgrades I make going forward. I'm starting to get excited about Organik again. :)
 

Newton John

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Great to hear you went ahead with your decision to install Organik for your Klimax Exaktboxes, and enjoying unprecedented performance for your Linn.

I was one of the first people on this forum to review the Organik upgrade in a Klimax DSM/3 A/V and then again with the Organik upgrade for a pair of Klimax 350’s.

In both cases, the Organik upgrade elevated the music listening experience from listening to a recording to listening to real musicians in the room performing. With Organik, the music just sounds right, with everything is more in focus, tonal balance and harmonics, effortlessly recreating the music. Definitely Linn‘s best upgrade, after the Linn Klimax DSM/3.

Given that there is no timeline for release of Organik upgrades for my Akubariks or Akurate Exaktboxes, I have explored other upgrades to tide me over until then, and found some viable options.

I am very much looking forward to seeing what Linn releases this year, with their 50th anniversary, and hope that Organik and Utopik become upgrade options for my Linn.
Thanks, Paul.

Like you, I thought the Next Generation Hub was the one to get first. To me, the change it brought about was more fundamental than Organik. Of course, my decision wasn’t entirely based on sound quality.

My dealer thought I would appreciate the upgrades more if they were staggered. That has proved correct. I guess he realised if he got me hooked on one the other would follow in time.

It seems that Organik builds on the Next Gen Hub and is much better with it. They are like the Ying and Yang of network music players.

Maybe, it would have worked just as well the other way round for some people. I think it might be a matter of taste. In the end, you do get to the same place.

What surprises me is those who claim the a DS upgraded with Organik gives 90% of the performance of a Next Gen DSM/3. Having tried every combination at home, I really don’t see how that can be the case, no pun intended. Nevertheless, it is clearly an excellent upgrade.

It must be a great source of frustration for you Akubarik owners that there is no Organik option yet. I am confident Linn will find a way round this, but it’ll cost ya.

Isn’t that always the way it works with Linn? Unfortunately, that’s a consequence of their business model. It would be nice to have our cake and eat it, but that’s an impossibility with current technology. Perhaps, one day Linn will go into partnership with a much bigger hifi company and then we will be able to have it both ways. I just hope they don’t kill the golden goose of constant improvement.
 
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Newton John

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I have mentioned before what I've been experiencing since getting the Klimax Radikal, and every upgrade since, this includes tweaking space optimisation. I referred to it as "enhanced returns." Gilad did point to this phenomenon in a video interview. At a certain level and above, very small improvements in the signal preservation (less loss of musical information) result in rather large increases in insight to the music. So in my case, I anticipate big improvements in sound quality from any upgrades I make going forward. I'm starting to get excited about Organik again. :)
That makes sense to me, but we are out step with the people on other hifi forums who talk about “diminishing returns”. The proof of the pudding is in the listening.

As we are talking about music, shouldn’t it be “augmenting returns” rather than “enhancing” them. 😉
 
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