Linn Owners

Linn LP12-50

13th Duke of Wymbourne

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 18, 2018
389
603
113
Dana Point, Ca
HiFi Trade?
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I think many of you will find this interesting.


The designer seems pretty down to earth but on OTOH didn't display much, or any, real insight into what makes a special turntable. In fact, the interviewer asked him what he would do for a new cost-no-object design and he had no ideas. He talked up the ruby/sapphire ball in his bearing saying how expensive it was and that a company like Rega would never use it because of the price - and probably because most of Rega's turntables sell for a fraction of Pure fidelity prices. He also made a lot about cable differences when asked - maybe he was just playing to the host - but he made it sound like cables made night and day differences whereas he never said anything like that about his turntables.
 

ThomasOK

LP12 Whisperer, Lejonklou importer
Wammer
Oct 19, 2018
2,016
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Westland, MI USA
AKA
Thomas O'Keefe
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
The designer seems pretty down to earth but on OTOH didn't display much, or any, real insight into what makes a special turntable. In fact, the interviewer asked him what he would do for a new cost-no-object design and he had no ideas. He talked up the ruby/sapphire ball in his bearing saying how expensive it was and that a company like Rega would never use it because of the price - and probably because most of Rega's turntables sell for a fraction of Pure fidelity prices. He also made a lot about cable differences when asked - maybe he was just playing to the host - but he made it sound like cables made night and day differences whereas he never said anything like that about his turntables.
Of course Rega wouldn't use it because of the price. That's why they had the crazy expensive ZTA zirconium-toughened alumina bearing made for the Naiad and new Naia.

Honestly I found the whole interview to not be of all that much interest. They use a denser mdf for the plinth with a wood veneer so the only similarity to a Linn plinth and the tonal quality is that they don't use concrete. They have four turntables but it mostly appears that you either get a big curve on the left front corner or a normal looking corner and they come with or without an aluminum sub base. Otherwise they seem to pretty much be the same turntable and are priced pretty close to each other. I haven't heard one so I have no idea of how they sound but having a designer tell you up front that he doesn't know what he is doing isn't exactly confidence inspiring.
 

dol

Newbie
Wammer
Feb 3, 2019
101
75
33
That is called voicing colorations, to be true to the source a turntable should be as free from resonances as it possible can. I'd guess that's what Linn is trying to correct with their new plinth.
Linn could have used fibreboard, mdf, plywood for the last 50 years, like so many others, if it was so simple. I smell a rat here
 

dol

Newbie
Wammer
Feb 3, 2019
101
75
33
Hello,
Does the Klimax on the LP12-50 come with the Utopik power supply card ?
No, it will be sold as an upgrade next year?

To the published knowledge only Select DSM and Klimax 360 use Utopik.
 

saxo

Newbie
Wammer
Jan 26, 2020
109
131
48
France-Bretagne
HiFi Trade?
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Thank you.
Surprising, Utopik preceded LP12-50 or at the same time. LP12-50 at the top of Linn sources with its price it deserved Utopik.
 

Moomintroll

Fictional Character - not to be taken literally
Wammer
May 20, 2014
3,413
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HiFi Trade?
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Thank you.
Surprising, Utopik preceded LP12-50 or at the same time. LP12-50 at the top of Linn sources with its price it deserved Utopik.
It does, but if it isn’t ready, it isn’t ready…

I don’t think it will be long.

’troll
 
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John76

Newbie
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Aug 14, 2020
134
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USA
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Maybe I should have posted this in the Bedrock Plinth thread!
I imagine that new plinth uses a good amount of glue! At least it’s finally made of a material that’s not likely to warp or change size based on the environment it‘s in. No Trampolin needed to compensate for those imperfections though it looks like that part remains on the LP50.
 
Last edited:

Solanum

Wammer
Wammer
Oct 9, 2018
456
367
68
HiFi Trade?
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I imagine that new plinth uses a good amount of glue! At least it’s finally made of a material that’s not likely to warp or change size based on the environment it‘s in. No Trampolin needed to compensate for those imperfections though it looks like that part remains on the LP50.
From the Panzerholz data sheet:
Under certain conditions, our beech-based Delignit® special materials can react to climatic influences such changes in humidity
and temperature with changes in shape (swelling up, shrinking and distortion). Specifically, it is not to be expected that our
materials are free of distortion and we therefore cannot guarantee this.
 

Moomintroll

Fictional Character - not to be taken literally
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May 20, 2014
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No Trampolin needed to compensate for those imperfections though it looks like that part remains on the LP50.
The adjustable feet on the Trampolin are a “bonus” if the owner requires that feature. The primary purpose of the Trampolin is to reduce structure born feedback below the cutoff point of the sprung suspension.

’troll
 

akamatsu

Michael
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Oct 9, 2018
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Point Roberts, WA, USA (Vancouver)
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Michael
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In fact, most LP21 oracles recommend not using the trampolin to level the table and to turn all four feet in as far as they will go.
I used to use the trampolin feet to adjust level. Then I got the Urika 2 and stopped doing so as I thought the feet were fixed. I just didn't want to force anything. The feet were screwed in tightly. Since my last visit to the dealer, I started using the trampolin feet to make the final level adjustment. Here's my take. What's most important is that the platter be level. How this is achieved is secondary to it being level. I find that using the Trampolin feet has me keep things level as I'm checking and adjusting more frequently.

P.S. Leveling the platter via adjusting the bottom spikes on the NOKTable is a bother. And I highly recommend the NOKTable.
 
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akamatsu

Michael
Wammer Plus
Oct 9, 2018
6,927
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Point Roberts, WA, USA (Vancouver)
AKA
Michael
HiFi Trade?
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From the Panzerholz data sheet:

Under certain conditions, our beech-based Delignit® special materials can react to climatic influences such changes in humidity
and temperature with changes in shape (swelling up, shrinking and distortion). Specifically, it is not to be expected that our
materials are free of distortion and we therefore cannot guarantee this.

Perhaps this is why Linn opted to not use Panzerholz.
 

ThomasOK

LP12 Whisperer, Lejonklou importer
Wammer
Oct 19, 2018
2,016
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Westland, MI USA
AKA
Thomas O'Keefe
HiFi Trade?
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I have now set up my first LP12-50 (with several more coming later). I will save some of you some time right now by stating up front that I cannot give you any musical comments on the unit. I only listened to it through an older NAD integrated amp and a pair of PSB Alpha speakers on the setup bench - nice but hardly representative of the type of system you would normally listen to a Klimax LP12 through. As I work for my old store on a contract basis, and as there wasn't a comparable Klimax LP12 to listen to, nor a system setup that I could easily jack into and hear what what was going on, I only have basic listening from setup to go on. Based on that all I can say is that it sounds like a Klimax LP12 but nothing popped out at me through that very basic system.

So this is more a report on the mechanicals. First and most obvious - the plinth. The plinth is almost completely dead acoustically with only a small amount of quickly damped high frequency ring when tapped. It is also very heavy! It weighs just under 9 pounds! (I didn't have a precise scale there.) This is over twice as heavy as the next heaviest plinth I have measured (one from Chris Harban) and easily more than twice than a stock Linn plinth. It is, of course very solid, well machined and I think it looks quite good in the natural finish (I haven't seen a white one in the flesh quite yet). With the stripy quality and the dark reddish finish (which they call natural but I doubt it) it is reminiscent of the original fluted afromosia plinths - appropriate in my mind for a 50th anniversary version of such an iconic design.

The top plate appears to be the same thickness as the standard stainless steel top plate, is made of the same material and has the same bolts, nuts, screws, springs, grommets, washers, etc. It has a new finish which is quite classy and shows up fingerprints less. It appears to be media blasted like the finish on Klimax amps, KRadikals, etc. and the Lejonklou SINGularity, giving a very nice satin quality. It is held in place the same way as the normal versions, two bolts in the middle and one in the motor corner although the instructions state that with the Bedrock plinth a cross brace is not needed. It is still susceptible to rattling in the switch corner and has to be fixed the same way, re-bending the top plate. The power switch is not attached to the top plate, it just fits into the hole. The power switch is mounted to the plinth and fits through the hole. It is basically flush with the top plate, looks good (by itself) and has a very nice feel to it.

The Keel is quite different, the most obvious thing being that it is two piece on the LP12-50 with the arm collar being bolted on as seen in other photos and below. Unusually, the arm collar is flat like the Akito one was, instead of having a cylinder extending into the armboard as the Ittok, Basiks and Ekos arms had, although the larger hole in the armboard part looks like it was made to accommodate that. Also unusually, the arm collar is affixed by four bolts making the LP12-50 Keel incompatible with any other arm collar. The armboard section not only has the rounded corners, as we have all seen, it is also smaller in size having a larger gap between it and the plinth/top plate all the way around. This is mentioned in the new instructions as part of the design.

The Ekos SE/1, Karousel and Ekstatik are all the same as any other units I have seen. The Radikal 2 is basically the same but it is designated as a Radikal 2-50 as the plug that goes into the power switch assembly has a 90° connector instead of a straight one and the cable to it is fitted with several inches of square foam to hold it into the channel in the left side of the plinth. Otherwise the only difference was a small piece of thin black, textured plastic to go on the inside lip of the outer platter instead of the black felt. The motor itself, the wiring and the Klimax Radikal chassis all appear to be exactly the same.

Then we have the hinges which are very nice, as are the new hinge plates. They will indeed hold the dust cover up at any angle up to 90° and they do also hold it solidly to the plinth when closed. The hinge plates are also very nicely machined aluminum and have flush fitting Torx 10 screws.

I have the definitive answer on whether the new hinges are compatible with older LP12s. The answer is indeed no. The new hinge plates are shorter left to right than the old ones and the screw holes don't line up. They do line up top to bottom meaning that you could line up two of then and drill two new holes, which would leave part of the old back and possibly the old holes showing. But that would mean the new hinge plates might not be centered and might not line up with the hinges. Some more measurements will be needed on that. Also the hinges themselves have tabs too thick to fit into the current hinge plates. Maybe some spacers would do it? But it sure seems like they were designed to not be backward compatible.

Finally there is a Urika-50. It is in a textured dark finish, almost black. The main metal plate has rounded corners and straight sides (not cut in like the normal one) and fits flush in the cutout all around. It is also held in by countersunk Torx 10 screws that are flush with the bottom when in place. They thread directly into holes in the plinth and have fine machine threads so you are warned not to over-tighten them. But if you just tighten them until they are snug you won't have the Urika fully against the plinth. It does take some force but just not too much so you have to be careful. The other difference here has to do with cable routing. The plinth has no holes in the back for cable exits so both interconnects and both power cables (motor and Urika) go through one hole cut in the back of the Urika, about where the chute used to be. This provides no strain relief for the motor power cable so pulling hard on it would be a very bad idea. It also makes it rather tricky trying to keep the power cables away from running next to the interconnect cables. In the past we found having those cables running parallel and close together was not a good idea. But the closeness can be minimized if you are careful. The actual Trampolin/Urika foot assembly seems to be exactly the same as on other versions. As noted in the plinth section, we are now being told we need to use the threaded feet for leveling.

I think that's about it but I'm open to questions. A few photos showing the Keel/arm collar.
 

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