FORMULA 1 2023

[enrae8]

Looking forward to Qualy
6 tenths from 3rd to 17th in practice 3 - could be great fun

 

[enrae8]

Great grid for the race tomorrow- looking forward to it

 

[zeta4]

Must have been a very nice feeling passing two Mercs & a prancing Horse to pick up a podium

it looks like Mercedes have finally decided to ditch the no sidepods design from last year and get back to what everyone did last season. Something they should have done last year and been more competitive leading to a much better start to this season

I fear it may not be as simple as that. It appears the side pod is not the main differentiator but the
underbody aero is . I also think two things happened which didnt help. First they won a race in Brazil which made them thing maybe there was something in their design after all and second by their own admission they compromised the underbody design anyway to be absolutely sure that there would be no porpoising.

I saw an interesting video on youtube " A masterclass on underbody aero by Wilhelm Tott" a well know ex F1 aerodynamicist who I think is known by someone on here. He showed the causes of porpoising ( underbody stall with delayed downforce recovery ) and hinted at means to achieve high downforce without getting near to this condition. This I think is the Red Bull secret sauce and something Dan Fallows of Aston Martin knows well being ex chief aerodynamicist at Red Bull.
I understand that the downwash side pod design is but one of these means

I think Mercedes now have to go on a steep learning path to discover what works and why but with
windtunnel design time restrictions. I think they've got an uphill task unless they can hire someone
with the knowledge as Aston Martin cleverly did.

However I do hope they get somewhere fast and other teams as well as a Red Bull 1-2 whitewash
will be as bad if not worse that previous team dominations in the past.

 

[IanW]

I fear it may not be as simple as that. It appears the side pod is not the main differentiator but the
underbody aero is . I also think two things happened which didnt help. First they won a race in Brazil which made them thing maybe there was something in their design after all and second by their own admission they compromised the underbody design anyway to be absolutely sure that there would be no porpoising.

I saw an interesting video on youtube " A masterclass on underbody aero by Wilhelm Tott" a well know ex F1 aerodynamicist who I think is known by someone on here. He showed the causes of porpoising ( underbody stall with delayed downforce recovery ) and hinted at means to achieve high downforce without getting near to this condition. This I think is the Red Bull secret sauce and something Dan Fallows of Aston Martin knows well being ex chief aerodynamicist at Red Bull.
I understand that the downwash side pod design is but one of these means

I think Mercedes now have to go on a steep learning path to discover what works and why but with
windtunnel design time restrictions. I think they've got an uphill task unless they can hire someone
with the knowledge as Aston Martin cleverly did.

However I do hope they get somewhere fast and other teams as well as a Red Bull 1-2 whitewash
will be as bad if not worse that previous team dominations in the past.

Willem Toet was head of Aero at Benetton, Ferrari, Sauber and joint head of Aero at British American Racing. And yes, I have known Willem for 25 years now (I met him at BAR).

Avoiding porpoising is one thing that the teams need to do, but it is not the RBR secret sauce, they have done far more than that.

Fundamentally F1 was stuck in an aero groove where micro optimisation of the aero configuration was required. The 2022 aero regs changed all that and a very different flow field has to be understood and then optimised somewhat. All of these cars need an aero solution that is developed across the whole car and taking, for example, the RBR sidepods and putting them on the Merc is very likely to make it slower.

And yes, the budget cap, which was designed to being the grid closer together (which it has other than RBR) will mean that it will take longer for teams to catch up with RBR, but they will at some point unless the rule makers mess with the rules again, which would spread the grid out again.

 

[MVJ]

And yes, the budget cap, which was designed to being the grid closer together (which it has other than RBR) will mean that it will take longer for teams to catch up with RBR, but they will at some point unless the rule makers mess with the rules again, which would spread the grid out again.

It seems a bit unfair that RBR who are now leading all the other F1 teams on track have been caught overspending and seemingly have got away with it and in the process gained a big jump on everyone else.

 

[MVJ]

Just read this on the BBC website sounds like they have been cooking the books while the other teams have been playing fair but I'm no brainbox so correct me if I'm wrong.

Did RBR overspend $7.25/£5,607,000 in 2021 & won their first title???????? WTF

Horner admitted that Red Bull had not taken up the opportunity to do a dry run of the cost cap in 2020, which many other teams did.

He said they considered their interim submission in April 2021 as their dry run, and that they had had no feedback from the FIA on that.

The FIA had previously said only that Red Bull had committed a "minor" breach, which is anything up to 5% of the cap, or $7.25m in 2021, when Verstappen won his first title, with no further details.

A statement by the FIA detailing Red Bull's errors said the team had "inaccurately excluded and/or adjusted costs amounting to a total of £5,607,000" in 2021.

The team's overspend breach of relevant costs adjusted by the FIA was £1,864,000.

This amounts to an understatement of accounts of nearly 5% and an adjusted overspend of 1.6%.

 

[garn63]

Quote from BBC Sport today.
"The unprecedented events will lead to controversy that F1 is putting showbusiness before sport." (Shock)
Am witnessing the same with football & VAR. The orchestrators of sport with their eyes on a prize won't stop, & all we will be left with is a watered down take on competitive sport, a bit like wrestling.

 

[MVJ]

Quote from BBC Sport today.
"The unprecedented events will lead to controversy that F1 is putting showbusiness before sport." (Shock)
Am witnessing the same with football & VAR. The orchestrators of sport with their eyes on a prize won't stop, & all we will be left with is a watered down take on competitive sport, a bit like wrestling.

I totally agree it started with them manipulating the 2021 final race so Lewis Hamilton lost & Max won because they wanted a new champion and it has continued since then interfering more and more.

I watched a bit of the highlights but lost interest

 

[garn63]

Zzzzzzz. Miami GP.
It's not motor racing anymore.
Would sooner remove ticks from my dog.

 

[DUVET]

Max is great driver but an immature cry baby .

 

[bencat]

And a spoilt racist d--k---d as well nothing much to like really .

 

[harv]

So looks like Aston Martin are jumping ship in 2026 to Honda...
Linky

 

[enrae8]

Brilliant Qualifying today !
Should be an interesting start tomorrow……….and then the usual (unless it rains)

 

[bencat]

I am sorry but there is never anything interesting happening at Monaco just a nice procession for the pole sitter unless they get a bit bored and hit the barrier . This race should have been binned years ago as having an unsuitable track with no real overtaking opportunities . They change the reg year after year to make it more competitive then leave this race in the calender . Should just go to Monaco and party and forget about running the race , just draw the winner out of a hat .

 

[enrae8]

Very entertaining race in Monaco - enjoyed it

 

[enrae8]

looking forward to Qualy - top ten in FP2 covered by .6
Will be interesting to see how upgrades for MB and FerrarI work out - Ferrari seem to be quietly confident

 

[enrae8]

Qualy could be even better than Monaco - if the rain persists!

 

[enrae8]

Very interesting Qualy
Brilliant performance from Lando !

 

[MVJ]

Lando needs a better car & he would be competing with Redbull up front all the time

 

[bencat]

Same old Redbull procession what was the interest ?