Espresso Machines and Grinders

reg

Wammer
Wammer
Mar 27, 2006
1,499
41
78
, ,
Great!  I've saved that video, even though I have two burr grinders.
His series of videos are great

Check out his method ones in particular

He has one for French Press, V60, Chemex etc

I drink French press a lot at the moment as i can take a big jug upstairs to my home office easily. His method has improved the output no end.

 
  • Like
Reactions: deggie

thewestfield

Wammer
Wammer
Dec 1, 2013
601
1,367
123
Malvern
AKA
Mal
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
On 29/11/2020 at 20:31, reg said:

If you are very geeky you can do this


Ok so I've given this a go with a cafetiere. The results, for me, are clearly better than simply using all the ground coffee from the blade grinder as the "extremes" are removed - coarse bits with sieve and super-fines with kitchen paper.  However, the blade grinder still chops up the beans inconsistently and the sieve will let the particles through as long as they fit through the mesh.  So there is still inconsistency, just not as much as before.

It's also a bit of a faff and quite messy!

Still if you happen to have purchased some beans by mistake and have a blade grinder I'd probably give this a go.  If you needed to purchase a grinder and I'm not sure it would be worth it, unless you were then going to grind up spices, etc. If you really want to get into brewing coffee then a burr grinder is the way to go.

Right, I'm off for a coffee. 

 

awkwardbydesign

Perfect, apparently.
Wammer
Mar 5, 2012
10,399
2,293
173
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
If you don't want to spend too much on a burr grinder, the Hario Skerton Pro hand grinder works effectively.  I did my research, and bought one, as my Rancilio Rocky was too noisy.  But as I have damaged wrists, I found the Hario painful to use, otherwise I would have been happy with it.  The settings are widely spaced, but I managed to find one that works for espresso (very fine).  https://coffeehit.co.uk/collections/hand-coffee-grinders/products/hario-skerton-pro-coffee-grinder  Other sellers are available.

Luckily I saw an Ascaso i-mini I-3 (an older version of the I-2, strangely) on eBay and got it for £42 inc p&p!  It's conical, but has infinite settings, and I have found a technique that gives me the best grind I have ever had!  And it sort of matches my laPavoni Europiccola.

Detalldisseny%20-%20Ascaso%20i-mini%20%2001_905.jpg


 
Last edited by a moderator:

Carrington

Well-Known Wammer
Wammer
Oct 10, 2018
1,810
3,049
148
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
So my OH bought a blade grinder from John Lewis and we gave it the first go today with our stove top espresso maker. Definite improvement on what we are used to, stronger and more flavour. Thanks for all the advice, I haven't watched the video yet but will do soon  :) .

 
  • Like
Reactions: thewestfield

thewestfield

Wammer
Wammer
Dec 1, 2013
601
1,367
123
Malvern
AKA
Mal
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Yes I agree.  I became a member when I got my first espresso machine - great place to pick up tips, tricks and gear! 

 

mr.me

Wammer
Wammer
Sep 2, 2009
4,693
550
0
Somewhere
AKA
John
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I got into coffee last year after we came back from a trip to Sicily (those were the days!) My wife said it was a shame we wouldn't be having an espresso for a while so I thought I would have a go at home.  I started with Gaggia Classic bought of Gumtree for £80 and pre-ground Illy coffee.  Pretty soon purchased a Mazzer Super Jolly that had already been modified to some degree and the coffee improved no end after I'd wasted a kilo of beans from Coffee Compass. I wasn't in the market for a new machine, but was looking (just like hifi) and saw a ridiculously cheap Fracino Classico which I snapped up.  Coffee is now much more consistent. 

I've used a few suppliers over the last year all good but my favourite at the moment is Black Cat - I seem to be getting very consistent shots with their beans. I see that Rave have just released their Christmas blend which I really enjoyed last year so will be giving that a go shortly.

Here's my setup:

turntable.jpg
Do you need to go on a course to learn how to use that  :)

 

MVJ

Wammer Plus
Wammer Plus
Apr 9, 2020
20,457
42,382
198
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
When I had mine installed the fitter showed me the best method & then let me try a few times to see if I grasped it then left me to it with a thumbs up. The company do day classes for new owners as they mainly supply to the restaurant trade.

The grinding is the hard bit it is very easy to overgrind and the coffee takes to long to flow thru making it bitter and to course & it's weak but once you find the sweet spot you'll know👍😍

 

thewestfield

Wammer
Wammer
Dec 1, 2013
601
1,367
123
Malvern
AKA
Mal
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
@mr.me I did actually go on a barista course at a coffee shop- didn’t cost a lot and gave a bit of hands on training from someone who knew what they were doing. 
 

Otherwise it is trial and error. I did get through a lot of beans at first! 

 

Ron Hilditch

Well-Known Wammer
Wammer
Aug 11, 2017
2,166
883
0
Suffolk
AKA
Ron Hilditch
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Looked at two videos, one on grinders around $3k and the other on grinders less than $100.  Not too sure?  Can understand why €3k coffee grinders are better made.  With the cheaper grinders, when he brewed the coffee the cups were so far below, it's no wonder the coffee went everywhere.  I'be got a Sboly grinder, identical to the cheap Cusinart grinder.  He had trouble with coffee sticking to the grinder due to static. Used mine many times and it's ever been a problem.  The Sboly grinder has 29 different setting from very fine (expresso) to coarse (French.). If the beans are ground to the way you want, why are ones ground using an expensive grinder better?  The other thing I noticed was how heavily he compressed the ground coffee into the holder.  Far more force than is recommended?  

 
Last edited by a moderator:

reg

Wammer
Wammer
Mar 27, 2006
1,499
41
78
, ,
Looked at two videos, one on grinders around $3k and the other on grinders less than $100.  Not too sure?  Can understand why €3k coffee grinders are better made.  With the cheaper grinders, when he brewed the coffee the cups were so far below, it's no wonder the coffee went everywhere.  I'be got a Sboly grinder, identical to the cheap Cusinart grinder.  He had trouble with coffee sticking to the grinder due to static. Used mine many times and it's ever been a problem.  The Sboly grinder has 29 different setting from very fine (expresso) to coarse (French.). If the beans are ground to the way you want, why are ones ground using an expensive grinder better?  The other thing I noticed was how heavily he compressed the ground coffee into the holder.  Far more force than is recommended?  
My understanding is uniformity of grind.

Think James Hoffman has a separate video showing dispersion of grind with some having part fines and part "rocks" mixed in. These fines and rocks result in a non uniform extraction.

However the differences are pretty small. Hoffman reviewed a load of sub £100 manual grinders and concluded that they all managed a decent coffee.

So side by side you could probably tell the difference and the high end grinder will produce the nicer coffee but for a lot of people it's not important.

Bit like hifi to be honest.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron Hilditch

Phobic

Mildly Annoying
Wammer Plus
Aug 29, 2020
3,450
3,066
0
Worksop
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
My understanding is uniformity of grind.

Think James Hoffman has a separate video showing dispersion of grind with some having part fines and part "rocks" mixed in. These fines and rocks result in a non uniform extraction.

However the differences are pretty small. Hoffman reviewed a load of sub £100 manual grinders and concluded that they all managed a decent coffee.

So side by side you could probably tell the difference and the high end grinder will produce the nicer coffee but for a lot of people it's not important.

Bit like hifi to be honest.
this is pretty much it, well said.

I own and EK43 grinder - 1of the ~£3k daddies, I've even gone to big lengths to make sure that the grinding surface is very well aligned as well to get things as good as possible, as with hifi I find every little tweak adds up....

I think uniformity is much more important for making espresso, filter & immersion (especially immersion) coffee is much less sensitive to uniformity but it does help there as well.

you can achieve something similar though with a cheaper grinder and sieves https://www.kruveinc.com/pages/kruve-sifter

I own these and never use them though, mainly because the added benefit on an EK43 isn't worth the time for me given the improvement. I certainly would think about using them with other grinders though, but I'd sieve a bit coarser than Kruve recommend to make the process faster, and just accept it won't taste quite as good.

As an aside I also own a manual grinder which I take on holiday with me, it makes a great brew, not as good as the EK43 but still very enjoyable.

 

thewestfield

Wammer
Wammer
Dec 1, 2013
601
1,367
123
Malvern
AKA
Mal
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Yes I think espresso making is much much like hifi, particularly in that upgraditus can strike at any time and there are great number of tweaks that can be applied to try and get that extra bit of flavour from the beans.  

My grinder was an ex-shop unit costing £150 and I have put off going to the next level as I really wonder whether I will be able to taste the difference. That and it means I have more cash to invest in hifi. :D

 

reg

Wammer
Wammer
Mar 27, 2006
1,499
41
78
, ,
Exciting times.

Needed to replace the gasket on the Silvia so decided to also buy a new Shower Screen and finally got round to buying new burrs for the Fiorenzato.

Timing wise i should have waited until i had a coffee that I was familiar with but couldn't so used Neighbourhood Coffee Espresso Yourself.

Unsurprisingly with the new burrs the dialling in was all over the place and got about 2 pints of coffee out on the first run.

Previously was closer to 3 on the Fiorenzato scale and now at ~2 which seems a bit weird to me as you would have expected the old burrs to be worn down and therefore requiring to be closer.

However the grinds coming out seem a lot more uniform and less clumpy so maybe that is an impact on flow or it could be that i have just fitted the new burrs slightly wrongly. They are also OEM as opposed to Fiorenzato branded so maybe slightly different?

I also got loads of beans and grinds all over the floor. It's surprising where grinds can get to over time. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

rapallokid

Rapallokid
Wammer
Feb 28, 2021
31
62
0
Gloucestershire
AKA
Eddie
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
So for what it's worth,  here's my opinion.

I have worked with Italian companies in food and drinks for the last 30 years, so maybe can add some value.

If you want a good bean to up option, a Gaggia Brera, is a good choice. But you will always need the correct beans that suit your taste. If you go down that root, then keeping beans fresh is the challenge. In my experience,  the best way is by using an effective vac pac machine. Makes great espresso,  has a steam wand, water reservoir and a funnel so you can use decaf and normal coffee at the same time. 

Next post with another option to follow. 

20210305_080926.jpg

20210305_085833.jpg

 

rapallokid

Rapallokid
Wammer
Feb 28, 2021
31
62
0
Gloucestershire
AKA
Eddie
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
So for what it's worth,  here's my opinion.

I have worked with Italian companies in food and drinks for the last 30 years, so maybe can add some value.

If you want a good bean to up option, a Gaggia Brera, is a good choice. But you will always need the correct beans that suit your taste. If you go down that root, then keeping beans fresh is the challenge. In my experience,  the best way is by using an effective vac pac machine. Makes great espresso,  has a steam wand, water reservoir and a funnel so you can use decaf and normal coffee at the same time.

Second option, a "frog" machine, only makes espresso,  but fantastic espresso. 

Works with btld  mineral water and single pods. 

They are recyclable,  and as you open then when needed guarantee  fresh coffee everytime.

Machine is inexpensive,  pods are a fixed cost,  no wastage,  no mess,  great coffee everytime.  

PM me for details and I will put you in touch.  I have no connection  and make nothing from it.

20210305_081004.jpg

20210305_081008.jpg

 

rapallokid

Rapallokid
Wammer
Feb 28, 2021
31
62
0
Gloucestershire
AKA
Eddie
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
So for what it's worth,  here's my opinion.

I have worked with Italian companies in food and drinks for the last 30 years, so maybe can add some value.

If you want a good bean to up option, a Gaggia Brera, is a good choice. But you will always need the correct beans that suit your taste. If you go down that root, then keeping beans fresh is the challenge. In my experience,  the best way is by using an effective vac pac machine. Makes great espresso,  has a steam wand, water reservoir and a funnel so you can use decaf and normal coffee at the same time.

Second option, a "frog" machine, only makes espresso,  but fantastic espresso. 

Works with btld  mineral water and single pods. 

They are recyclable,  and as you open then when needed guarantee  fresh coffee everytime.

Machine is inexpensive,  pods are a fixed cost,  no wastage,  no mess,  great coffee everytime.  

PM me for details and I will put you in touch.  I have no connection  and make nothing from it.

 

rapallokid

Rapallokid
Wammer
Feb 28, 2021
31
62
0
Gloucestershire
AKA
Eddie
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
So for what it's worth,  here's my opinion.

I have worked with Italian companies in food and drinks for the last 30 years, so maybe can add some value.

If you want a good bean to up option, a Gaggia Brera, is a good choice. But you will always need the correct beans that suit your taste. If you go down that root, then keeping beans fresh is the challenge. In my experience,  the best way is by using an effective vac pac machine. Makes great espresso,  has a steam wand, water reservoir and a funnel so you can use decaf and normal coffee at the same time.

Second option, a "frog" machine, only makes espresso,  but fantastic espresso. 

Works with btld  mineral water and single pods. 

They are recyclable,  and as you open then when needed guarantee  fresh coffee everytime.

Machine is inexpensive,  pods are a fixed cost,  no wastage,  no mess,  great coffee everytime.  

PM me for details and I will put you in touch.  I have no connection  and make nothing from it.

20210305_085833.jpg

20210305_080926.jpg

 

Forum statistics

Threads
113,444
Messages
2,451,263
Members
70,783
Latest member
reg66

Latest Articles