Considering giving up vinyl - conclusion

uzzy

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Do you think when guys like Sting and Dire Straits, (and a bunch of classical) came out with DDD in the late 80s and early 90s they are equal to LP sound or better/inferior? But only based on your system of course. You have good gear so, as always, mileage may vary.
Well to be honest I rarely bought new vinyl after I found a CD player that I liked. In theory if it is a digital recording then it should not sound better on vinyl but there are those that argue that is not the case.

My 26 year old lad, however, whilst brought up on digital and then streaming buys all the music he likes on Vinyl and argues to me it sounds better than the digital. He uses streaming services to find what he likes then buys it on LP.

My record collection kind of came to a halt in the mid to late 80s so most of my record collection is AAD. I thought that I would get the cds and then sell on the bulky record collection only to find that all the replacement cds of old vinyl invariably sounded worse - so the vinyl remains.

I do have Amused to Death on vinyl and cd so will try and get round to do a comparison sometime to see the results. My lad bought me the album and it must have had a foreign object in the sleeve as the second time I played it there was a scratch on one side .. my fault I guess as I was lazy as I usually stick a new album on the Okki Nokki and then use a new sleeve.

I have to say though that I do love my Decca and there is a magic on well recorded LPs that I have yet heard any DDD and CD player produce .. I did do a CD of favourite tracks recording the LPs onto CDR on the HB Burnit Pro and found that the burnt CD of AAD LPs sounded far better than the bought CD and only a whisker away from the LP.
 
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tuga

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Be good for you to pop round sometime Tuga and do the experiment together
Why do you expect my opinion to be different when listening to your system? It won't.
We just have to accept that it's a matter of preference. You grew up with vinyl and I grew up with CD, we probably treasure different aspects of the presentation as well.
 

tuga

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I have to say though that I do love my Decca and there is a magic on well recorded LPs that I have yet heard any DDD and CD player produce ..
This sentence says it all. You love the sound of your vinyl record player (and of vinyl itself, because it's not a very 'transparent' medium, far less accurate to a master analogue tape than a CD).
I understand your point about not being able to replicate that sound you love with CD because it has far less 'own' sound, which is why some people end up getting NOS CD players and DACs, sometimes with valves and transformers in the analogue signal path. Such players offer an 'enhanced' reproduction of the signal, much like a vinyl record player does, with varying amounts of signal-correlated distortions which have known euphonic qualities (just like some equipment used in music production).
In the end it's down to personal preference, just like some people like to set their TV to have more or less contrast, more or less sharpess, more or less saturation...
 
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uzzy

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This sentence says it all. You love the sound of your vinyl record player (and of vinyl itself, because it's not a very 'transparent' medium, far less accurate to a master analogue tape than a CD).
Not so Tuga .. with AAD cds compared to the original vinyl the CD lacks transparency and detail and most of all does not have the dynamics and timing .. I know it is hard to describe but is that connection with the music that makes you want to tap your feet or move, and this is lost on the digital conversions I have heard with very few exceptions.

I do agree though our search for DACs that produce that precision and emotion .. it is the emotion we have at live concerts and is somehow missing on many CD players and DACs
 

uzzy

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Why do you expect my opinion to be different when listening to your system? It won't.
We just have to accept that it's a matter of preference. You grew up with vinyl and I grew up with CD, we probably treasure different aspects of the presentation as well.
I have no idea what to expect .. my personal view is you will then understand what I mean about the difference between AAD cds and the original vinyl .. rather than exchanging words we would then be debating the actual audition experience. To date I have not had anybody disagree that the vinyl in these circumstances sounds far far better (even from some who also had never experienced vinyl).

I wish the above was not true as vinyl is a pain in the bum - no remote to skip tracks .. the pops and clicks on some albums and the invariable slip that scratches an album (let alone the cleaning palava). I am pretty sure that if someone could get at original master tapes and took a lot of care in converting to digital the gap might close considerably or even be eliminated but as a host of masters stored for many artists went up in smoke on a lot of recordings that is no longer possible.
 

tuga

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Not so Tuga .. with AAD cds compared to the original vinyl the CD lacks transparency and detail and most of all does not have the dynamics and timing .. I know it is hard to describe but is that connection with the music that makes you want to tap your feet or move, and this is lost on the digital conversions I have heard with very few exceptions.

I do agree though our search for DACs that produce that precision and emotion .. it is the emotion we have at live concerts and is somehow missing on many CD players and DACs
Can you give 2 or 3 album examples? We can easily check the dynamic range here (although not against vinyl because the meter doesn't work with vinyl) and I might even have one of them and do a few more tests. I have AAD CDs and many have low gain compared to modern offers which are very close to or even over the (clipping) limit and people generally prefer 'loud' (there's research evidence pointing to that conclusion).

I don't doubt that some analogue recordings won't have been properly transfered to CD, I think that is one good reason for keeping an LP playback system, together with preference for the sound/presentation of that support.
 
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tuga

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I have no idea what to expect .. my personal view is you will then understand what I mean about the difference between AAD cds and the original vinyl .. rather than exchanging words we would then be debating the actual audition experience. To date I have not had anybody disagree that the vinyl in these circumstances sounds far far better (even from some who also had never experienced vinyl).
I understand now what you mean, that particular recordings sound better in LP than in CD. I have experienced that.
 

hiesteem

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I think the margin between the two formats has diminished. I'm listening to a recording on cd from 71. It has serious dynamic range and all the silence between notes etc that you would expect with a top vinyl turntable.
Granted they will likely present differently they are different formats.
 
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Hello everyone

As some may know I am have a change in life circumstances and am looking afresh at everything and especially when it comes to possessions. I was horrified to find out with my current house move that just my personal possessions (no furniture and mostly audio and studio gear) occupy 15 cubic meters of space and weigh 1200kgs. That’s ridiculous and so a lot of stuff has to go especially as I will probably be country hopping again in another 12 months time.

On the vinyl front I am a little hesitant as if I sell my current t/t and phono stage I will never be able to afford it again and also I may miss the glorious sound. (Luxman PD171 with Audio Note arm2 and IO and a Trilogy 907 phonostage.) This is one of the best turntable set ups that I have heard (according to my preferences).

Has anyone sold a high end turntable going full digital and regretted it or felt liberated? Is it worth keeping a small handful of meaningful LPs (especially those not available on digital) and a cheap turntable? (Just bought my wife a Project EVO).

I don’t need kit suggestions and am more interested in considerations and experiences of others who have gone on this journey particularly both positive and negative.

Also I have received my Audio Note IO back from a service at Audio Note. It’s still in the shipping box. Should I open it and enjoy one more year of this cartridge or better to sell in this ‘newly refurbished’ condition? Not sure how much resale would be affected? I suspect as is it’s worth maybe £1600 as is but if I used it then maybe £1000? What do you guys think?
How can you deprive yourself of the pleasure of listening to what you like for a whole year? So much can change in a year. Circumstances or your attitude towards them may change. Anything can happen. I am telling you this as a person in whose country a war broke out more than a year ago, which no one expected.
Enjoy all year round what you love. The time will come - then you will decide.
 
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StingRay

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I think the margin between the two formats has diminished. I'm listening to a recording on cd from 71. It has serious dynamic range and all the silence between notes etc that you would expect with a top vinyl turntable.
Granted they will likely present differently they are different formats.
Which album is it?

Many early cds were not done well, as Uzzy says, for 70s rock. Someone gave me a Jethro Tull album on cd, it is awful, can't even play it, I have it on vinyl as well and it is fine. Steve Wilson has done a good job on Tull albums but many are not up to that standard.
Digital can be well done, such as ECM, although some prefer the vinyl.
 
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hiesteem

peacebro
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Which album is it?

Many early cds were not done well, as Uzzy says, for 70s rock. Someone gave me a Jethro Tull album on cd, it is awful, can't even play it, I have it on vinyl as well and it is fine. Steve Wilson has done a good job on Tull albums but many are not up to that standard.
Digital can be well done, such as ECM, although some prefer the vinyl.
Terje Rypdal most of his stuff dates back to the 70's. I highly recommend his work on any format.
I don't think bad recordings discriminate.
 

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StingRay

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Terje Rypdal most of his stuff dates back to the 70's. I highly recommend his work on any format.
I don't think bad recordings discriminate.
Thanks, don't know him, will try.

I find classical and jazz alright on digital and ECM are one of the better labels.
 
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hiesteem

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Thanks, don't know him, will try.

I find classical and jazz alright on digital and ECM are one of the better labels.
In the end for me, I have a cd player because I find the music I like more accessible. I probably have a difficult taste to feed. Jazz, jazz rock, country jazz rock such as grateful dead and other assorted from same period.
Easier and cheaper to find on Cd.
I would love another good turntable, a new linn especially and I love the sound of a certain type of vinyl replay, but the music has to come first and I have a heavy investment in cd software and hardware.
 

uzzy

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Can you give 2 or 3 album examples? We can easily check the dynamic range here (although not against vinyl because the meter doesn't work with vinyl) and I might even have one of them and do a few more tests. I have AAD CDs and many have low gain compared to modern offers which are very close to or even over the (clipping) limit and people generally prefer 'loud' (there's research evidence pointing to that conclusion).

I don't doubt that some analogue recordings won't have been properly transfered to CD, I think that is one good reason for keeping an LP playback system, together with preference for the sound/presentation of that support.
Edii Brickel Shooting Rubber Bands, Jethro Tull Living in the Past. Genesis Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme, Joan Armitrading Down to Zero, Dire Straights first album, that is enough for starters
 
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tuga

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Sonic comparisons can be a bit tiresome in my eyes (or ears), all I know is when a 12 inch square parcel arrives from Jazz House I'm happy :).

I am not into comparison, whether it's hi-fi gear and accessories or formats, but if the gross of my preferred recordings had issues I would probably own both CD and vinyl players and spend time tracking down the best version, whether LP, CD, SACD or download. To be fair, some of my jazz CDs don't sound great (quite a few of them from Blue Note).
 

tuga

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Edii Brickel Shooting Rubber Bands, Jethro Tull Living in the Past. Genesis Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme, Joan Armitrading Down to Zero, Dire Straights first album, that is enough for starters
I am currently listening to Eddie Brickel, the only one I own.
The dynamic range is way above average, pretty good in fact:

https://dr.loudness-war.info/?artist=&album=Shooting+RubberBands

What exactly is worse in the CD version?
I would expect it to sound 'colder' and perhaps a bit 'dry' sounding when compared to the vinyl edition.
 

tuga

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I haven't listened to this album for 30 years.

Edit: the track "Circle" actually sounds a bit too 'bright' or lacking 'bottom' and 'sparkly' at the top.
 

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