Are we being hoodwinked?

TIU

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A high end sound can be achieved with modest, mid range gear set up in a dedicated room with wall panels etc, using a system like dirac live.
But folk expect a high end sound in their living room just by buying high end gear. It can work but I think a properly prepared space is needed.
 

uzzy

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Why do we assume that gear that costs two or three times more will perform a lot better?
Some of us don't. The answer as always with buying any hifi is to let your ears be the judge.

I am still living with a 45 year old Hafler DH200, I have tried many amps over the years and nothing has induced me to change (of the amps tried. Krell KSA 50, EAR 509s, Mission, the original with the case front moulded to MISSION, Meridian 105, 205, 557, Denon PMA 850, Quad 405 and 405 2, Cyrus, Nord, and a host of others.)

The same is true of turntables where a large number listen with their eyes. I think a few or more than a few would be really surprised if they did some blind dems against the mega pound items they have bought with carefully bought cheaper items.
 

hiesteem

peacebro
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Some of us don't. The answer as always with buying any hifi is to let your ears be the judge.

I am still living with a 45 year old Hafler DH200, I have tried many amps over the years and nothing has induced me to change (of the amps tried. Krell KSA 50, EAR 509s, Mission, the original with the case front moulded to MISSION, Meridian 105, 205, 557, Denon PMA 850, Quad 405 and 405 2, Cyrus, Nord, and a host of others.)

The same is true of turntables where a large number listen with their eyes. I think a few or more than a few would be really surprised if they did some blind dems against the mega pound items they have bought with carefully bought cheaper items.
Yup! My experience as well.
CDP amp or speakers, wouldn't swop mine with anything modern.
I've been to shows and said as much on occasion, their reaction is quite interesting .
 
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Von Krolock

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Some smaller manufacturers are also dedicated, even obsessive enthusiasts and effectively charge bugger-all for months or more of product development in the price of the product.

Most electronic components, with a few exceptions, are relatively cheap - but a skilled
designer's time probably isn't. Costs like this need to be factored in.
 
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bigrod

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HiFi Trade?
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I basically have 2 systems , to replace my main system components would probably cost £20,000 if they we’re lost in a fire , But a lot of that cost , is because it has to have the “looks “ for Diane’s approval
My man-cave normal system is around £2000 based on the Gale 401’s
But I love what they both offer in the spaces they are situated…I’ve tried the Gale 401’s in the main system because Diane also likes their looks ,, but as good as they are they just can’t do what the Kara’s can do in the space ..
 
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oldius

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HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
We are all free to make the decisions we make and to buy what we want to buy. All of our senses are seduced by audio products and what we see and read and hear all has an effect on our buying choices.

Just as an example, the finish of a pair of speakers has little, or no, effect on the sonic performance of the speakers, yet how many of us would like a raw finish on a piece of gear in our living rooms? Similarly, a D'Agostino amplifier has significant investment in a casework that looks the part (if you like that look) but sonic benefit? Cables is the big one, of course, and I know someone who works in branding. The absolute fact is that there are a tiny number of cable manufacturers, and the hifi cables we buy are from a very small group of suppliers, and a small range of products. Rebranding with a hifi company's name has no effect on the sound quality, but it will convince some to invest huge sums of money with no tangible benefit. The belief that there is one is a complex, sensory mix.

Fundamentally, none of this really matters. If my senses are satisfied in any way, and I am happy with my decisions, then that is everything. The only person listening will be me, in my own home, so my spending is, fundamentally, nobody else's call.
 
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bigrod

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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
We are all free to make the decisions we make and to buy what we want to buy. All of our senses are seduced by audio products and what we see and read and hear all has an effect on our buying choices.

Just as an example, the finish of a pair of speakers has little, or no, effect on the sonic performance of the speakers, yet how many of us would like a raw finish on a piece of gear in our living rooms? Similarly, a D'Agostino amplifier has significant investment in a casework that looks the part (if you like that look) but sonic benefit? Cables is the big one, of course, and I know someone who works in branding. The absolute fact is that there are a tiny number of cable manufacturers, and the hifi cables we buy are from a very small group of suppliers and products. Rebranding with a hifi company's name has no effect on the sound quality, but it will convince some to invest huge sums of money with no tangible benefit. The belief that there is one is a complex, sensory mix.

Fundamentally, none of this really matters. If my senses are satisfied in any way, and I am happy with my decisions, then that is everything. The only person listening will be me, in my own home, so my spending is, fundamentally, nobody else's call.
It’s the same with any consumable from washing machines to cars ..There are 1,000s of companies selling consumer related products but relatively few who manufacture the individual components…
 

oldius

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HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
As for some people buying with their eyes I am selling an amp that I love the look of and buying one that I don’t like the look of. I am clearly doing something wrong.
I support counter-culture.
 
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bigrod

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As for some people buying with their eyes I am selling an amp that I love the look of and buying one that I don’t like the look of. I am clearly doing something wrong.
Can’t you buy an amp with the same capabilities that you do like the look of ..
 

DomT

Food and coffee and rock n roll
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Can’t you buy an amp with the same capabilities that you do like the look of ..
Have been trying for three years. Found a real sweet spot combined streamer/DAC/Amp/Phonostage. Just that combination is rare. That it sounds like I would want is another matter. It’s a Gold Note IS 1000 Deluxe. Some say that it looks amazing. The build quality is amazing. I am very happy to have found it. But visually it’s not my thing.
IMG_0642.jpeg
 
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Nestor Turton

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Preference or taste. Some people can afford Ferrari's, they may not even have the edge performance-wise to some of the competition, and possibly cost much more than the better vehicles, yet it's still something very special to own regardless of all that. Being sensible doesn't come in it :)
My neighbour has one of those - horrible noisy thing - why he couldn't upgrade to nice quiet EV is beyond me, but no he has to listen to it roar so much so it interrupts my enjoyment of Maiden's Number of the Best even with the volume turned up to 11.

Here's a song that says it all about cars
https://www.derekerdman.com/ilovemilkshakes/october2004/Desperate_Bicycles_Anthology/Cars.mp3
 

DomT

Food and coffee and rock n roll
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HiFi Trade?
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My neighbour has one of those - horrible noisy thing - why he couldn't upgrade to nice quiet EV is beyond me, but no he has to listen to it roar so much so it interrupts my enjoyment of Maiden's Number of the Best even with the volume turned up to 11.

Here's a song that says it all about cars
https://www.derekerdman.com/ilovemilkshakes/october2004/Desperate_Bicycles_Anthology/Cars.mp3
An interesting programme on radio 4 this morning about lithium extraction and how Chile’s natural water resources are being plundered so that people can have a car run by batteries.
 
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Nestor Turton

Nestor Turton
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An interesting programme on radio 4 this morning about lithium extraction and how Chile’s natural water resources are being plundered so that people can have a car run by batteries.
Very interesting, it's an important issue that highlights the environmental challenges associated with electric vehicle batteries and, in particular, and its impact on Chile's natural water resources. Sustainable and considerate practices in the industry are crucial.

My preference is quiet cars equipped with autopilot technology, which will reduce noise and other pollution and contribute to safer road experiences by eliminating the biggest cause of accidents: drivers. That said, the discussion around lithium extraction and its environmental consequences underscores the need for a holistic approach to sustainable transport solutions. I agree, as we move towards electric vehicles, we must consider not only their benefits but also the ethical and environmental aspects of their production.

Turning into Angel Pavement from that crazy jumble of buses, lorries, drays, private cars and desperate bicycles…

I also agree I have spent too much on hifi. If only they'd bring out a DAC with 10,015,808 taps ... :-(
 

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