Allo Digione: chip shortage, or...?

[slavedata]

Now matched the levels. I can't hear any difference but I have hearing aids now. We will see what the weekend brains trust thinks.
But I've remembered why I went to USB Coax has insufficent bndwidth to play my ripped SACDs

 

[Nifkin]

Well intrigued by this desire for a coax input to the DAC I thought I would try it. I have a Pi3 with standard Digione board, so set it up together with my current Pi4 with USB both connecting to the same DAC (Project Pre Box S2). So I can compare the 2 A/B switching between them on the DAC.
But the volume levels don't match the Digione is louder so sounds better. I'm taking this kit to the Settle Bakeoff weekend on Friday so we can have a brains trust to decide if there is any difference in sound.

I doubt there's discernable difference between a USB and a coaxial cable for the vast majority of applications: I just happen to have more quality coaxs lying about.

 

[Nifkin]

Well intrigued by this desire for a coax input to the DAC I thought I would try it. I have a Pi3 with standard Digione board, so set it up together with my current Pi4 with USB both connecting to the same DAC (Project Pre Box S2). So I can compare the 2 A/B switching between them on the DAC.
But the volume levels don't match the Digione is louder so sounds better. I'm taking this kit to the Settle Bakeoff weekend on Friday so we can have a brains trust to decide if there is any difference in sound.

Also, I'm intrigued by your intrigue Surely the Digione is supposed to be used by connecting either it's BNC or RCA outs (both coaxials) to a DAC? After all the Digione doesn't have a USB port and doesn't do anything for the USBs of the RPI it's attached to. As you own a Digione, how have you connected it to your downstream kit before?

 

[slavedata]

What I was intrigued by was the desire for a co-axial connection rather than a USB connection. My first thought is to go with the connection with the widest bandwidth.
I asked my wife who has better hearing than me to listen to both. Her verdict was there is a difference. The Coax she judged as brighter but harsher, the USB as smoother but not as bright.

 

[Nifkin]

What I was intrigued by was the desire for a co-axial connection rather than a USB connection. My first thought is to go with the connection with the widest bandwidth.
I asked my wife who has better hearing than me to listen to both. Her verdict was there is a difference. The Coax she judged as brighter but harsher, the USB as smoother but not as bright.

My point was that you won't be able to benefit from the Digione with a USB connection into a DAC, because the Digione doesn't have a USB output: you need to use either of the two coaxial outputs to connect it to downstream equipment.

Therefore the choice of whether coax or USB has widest bandwidth is not really relevant to using a piece of kit that doesn't have a USB output anyway

Of course as an owner of a Digione I'm sure you'd know that, so wondered how you had previously been using the Digione if you hadn't already used it with a coax?

 

[Lawrence001]

My point was that you won't be able to benefit from the Digione with a USB connection into a DAC, because the Digione doesn't have a USB output: you need to use either of the two coaxial outputs to connect it to downstream equipment.

Therefore the choice of whether coax or USB has widest bandwidth is not really relevant to using a piece of kit that doesn't have a USB output anyway

Of course as an owner of a Digione I'm sure you'd know that, so wondered how you had previously been using the Digione if you hadn't already used it with a coax?

Just butting in sorry but I've been following this debate with some interest.

If the hypothesis is that a pi with digione/coax sounds no better than a pi with usb out, then if this is true you could save money by not buying a digione. It could be the digione outclassed the Pi3 but, given the Pi4 apparently has a better usb out, that could no longer be the case. Hence my interest.

 

[slavedata]

Just butting in sorry but I've been following this debate with some interest.

If the hypothesis is that a pi with digione/coax sounds no better than a pi with usb out, then if this is true you could save money by not buying a digione. It could be the digione outclassed the Pi3 but, given the Pi4 apparently has a better usb out, that could no longer be the case. Hence my interest.

An exact summary of the point I have been making.

 

[bencat]

Just a couple of observations and as always they are just my thoughts . Firstly I would agree that if you want to use the USB from a Pi the 4 is by far the best Pi to use .

Now I have an Allo Digione Signature in use with a full Shanti PSU in main system . As a pure digital player I think it is excellent . It is feeding SPDIF via BNC to a Mutec 3+ USB which has a 10mHz external clock feeding it and that is feeding a dCS Purcell / Delius pairing . I have tried a few replacement players and in all cases have not been able to detect much if any noticable difference . This means the Allo is good enough and I look at improving other items in the chain . Many will disagree with this ans some will make scathing comments that the Allo is nothing like the standard needed . I can appreciate their view but in my room and with my system I have consistently proved to myself that it is good enough for sensible money .

Next is my observation of using USB output from a Pi4 and indeed any other USB output including some very expensive ones . USB is not designed or considered with music in mind . Most current implementations use cheap and cheerful sockets and plugs as fitted to your PC and also use the same transfer / Accept boards from cheap PC . Innous show details of how they have worked hard on the USB drivers and output they use and it is impressive . Then we all plug it in and send the improved signal to a DAC etc that has just the usual cheap USB and we ruin any advantages the Innous may have gained.

My opinion of USB is similar to that of TOSLINK areally well specified communication system for digital exchange then let down by the quality of the end to end plugs and sender / receiver boards . They can be excellent but only if they are made in house and not the cheap off the shelf units most companies use and this needs to be at both ends . So in my case I find in order to make USB signals sound better then you need to use a DDC and convert the signal to SPDIF RCA if thats all you can get but BNC s better . Then being the strange person I am I found that using two DDC units daisy chained works even better so that is what I do .

 

[Gustav9]

WARNING! It seems that the Allo company is no longer in business. There is a particular problem with the USBridge Signature model. They have not been updating the USB chip drivers on the Linux kernel.

Sooner or later, when the software that you are using updates its Linux kernel (the core operating system for the Pi module) you wil hear clicks and pops in the background when listening to music.

Ropieee is offering a 'legacy' version of their excellent software to allow USBridge owners to keep their kit working.

 

[slavedata]

Just a couple of observations and as always they are just my thoughts . Firstly I would agree that if you want to use the USB from a Pi the 4 is by far the best Pi to use .

Now I have an Allo Digione Signature in use with a full Shanti PSU in main system . As a pure digital player I think it is excellent . It is feeding SPDIF via BNC to a Mutec 3+ USB which has a 10mHz external clock feeding it and that is feeding a dCS Purcell / Delius pairing . I have tried a few replacement players and in all cases have not been able to detect much if any noticable difference . This means the Allo is good enough and I look at improving other items in the chain . Many will disagree with this ans some will make scathing comments that the Allo is nothing like the standard needed . I can appreciate their view but in my room and with my system I have consistently proved to myself that it is good enough for sensible money .

Next is my observation of using USB output from a Pi4 and indeed any other USB output including some very expensive ones . USB is not designed or considered with music in mind . Most current implementations use cheap and cheerful sockets and plugs as fitted to your PC and also use the same transfer / Accept boards from cheap PC . Innous show details of how they have worked hard on the USB drivers and output they use and it is impressive . Then we all plug it in and send the improved signal to a DAC etc that has just the usual cheap USB and we ruin any advantages the Innous may have gained.

My opinion of USB is similar to that of TOSLINK areally well specified communication system for digital exchange then let down by the quality of the end to end plugs and sender / receiver boards . They can be excellent but only if they are made in house and not the cheap off the shelf units most companies use and this needs to be at both ends . So in my case I find in order to make USB signals sound better then you need to use a DDC and convert the signal to SPDIF RCA if thats all you can get but BNC s better . Then being the strange person I am I found that using two DDC units daisy chained works even better so that is what I do .

Quality of connectors for USB may not be great but in my Audio system they are connected once then left. The increase in bandwidth is key for me as it enables my DAC to play just about any file no matter how high a resolution. It also allows native play of DSD files .

 

[Nifkin]

An exact summary of the point I have been making.

Haha well your point wasn't clear at all! I asked you how you had been using your Digione, as you appeared to be intrigued by the novelty of how it's designed to be used (e.g. coax into DAC) and kept going on about using a USB connection, which it doesn't have. But I see now that you were taking as read that the USB output of the RPI4 negates the use for a Digione, which I think is, at best, pure speculation.

As per @bencat's post, a lot of the time I've found USB isn't best implemented for music. It wouldn't surprise me if the RPI4 improves upon the RPI3 in many respects, but no RPI is in itself music-focussed.

 

[Nifkin]

WARNING! It seems that the Allo company is no longer in business. There is a particular problem with the USBridge Signature model. They have not been updating the USB chip drivers on the Linux kernel.

Sooner or later, when the software that you are using updates its Linux kernel (the core operating system for the Pi module) you wil hear clicks and pops in the background when listening to music.

Ropieee is offering a 'legacy' version of their excellent software to allow USBridge owners to keep their kit working.

Welcome to the 'WAM, Gustav from Ropieee

 

[Gizza]

WARNING! It seems that the Allo company is no longer in business. There is a particular problem with the USBridge Signature model. They have not been updating the USB chip drivers on the Linux kernel.

Sooner or later, when the software that you are using updates its Linux kernel (the core operating system for the Pi module) you wil hear clicks and pops in the background when listening to music.

Ropieee is offering a 'legacy' version of their excellent software to allow USBridge owners to keep their kit working.

I guess it'd be a case of scrapping the player or fitting a Digione or Digione Signature Board to it and using RCA digital.

 

[bencat]

Not sure but I think we incidents case there is form of Pi unit with an SD card . This could be flashed to LMS and You could configure that to output via USB using something like Picoreplayer . As LMS is fully supported and the Linux based is fully updated you should be fine .

 

[Man in a van]

What I was intrigued by was the desire for a co-axial connection rather than a USB connection. My first thought is to go with the connection with the widest bandwidth.
I asked my wife who has better hearing than me to listen to both. Her verdict was there is a difference. The Coax she judged as brighter but harsher, the USB as smoother but not as bright.

So, inspired by a thread on slimdevices forum I have been trying to utilise two usb dacs as squeezelite instances on the same raspberry pi.

I have done this a few years ago, using a dac Hat and a usb Dac.

After a bit of faffing, memory failure , I now have a raspberry pi 3b+ with three squeezelite instances running

1) Allo Digione Hat
2) Khadas Toneboard
3) Topping DX3 Pro

I have set the Digione as the default player in Squeezelite settings (pCP)

Using a script I filched from a slimdevices forum member I can also choose either of the usb dacs (or indeed have all of them playing at the same time).



I have synced the Digione and Topping usb in LMS (both volume and power)

I can switch between the usb and co-ax inputs on the Topping using the remote control.

Listening on headphones (AKG 702)

Both sound really nice

ronnie

 

[Nifkin]

So, inspired by a thread on slimdevices forum I have been trying to utilise two usb dacs as squeezelite instances on the same raspberry pi.

I have done this a few years ago, using a dac Hat and a usb Dac.

After a bit of faffing, memory failure , I now have a raspberry pi 3b+ with three squeezelite instances running

1) Allo Digione Hat
2) Khadas Toneboard
3) Topping DX3 Pro

I have set the Digione as the default player in Squeezelite settings (pCP)

Using a script I filched from a slimdevices forum member I can also choose either of the usb dacs (or indeed have all of them playing at the same time).



I have synced the Digione and Topping usb in LMS (both volume and power)

I can switch between the usb and co-ax inputs on the Topping using the remote control.

Listening on headphones (AKG 702)

Both sound really nice

ronnie

What's a squeezelite instance?

 

[Man in a van]

What's a squeezelite instance?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech_Media_Server


It's a emulation of the software used by LMS in their Hardware devices.

https://forums.slimdevices.com/foru...less-squeezeplay-emulator-for-linux-alsa-only


ronnie

 

[Cable Monkey]

Welcome to the 'WAM, Gustav from Ropieee

Ropieee is the product of a single individual based in Holland. His name is Harry!

 

[slavedata]

So, inspired by a thread on slimdevices forum I have been trying to utilise two usb dacs as squeezelite instances on the same raspberry pi.

I have done this a few years ago, using a dac Hat and a usb Dac.

After a bit of faffing, memory failure , I now have a raspberry pi 3b+ with three squeezelite instances running

1) Allo Digione Hat
2) Khadas Toneboard
3) Topping DX3 Pro

I have set the Digione as the default player in Squeezelite settings (pCP)

Using a script I filched from a slimdevices forum member I can also choose either of the usb dacs (or indeed have all of them playing at the same time).



I have synced the Digione and Topping usb in LMS (both volume and power)

I can switch between the usb and co-ax inputs on the Topping using the remote control.

Listening on headphones (AKG 702)

Both sound really nice

ronnie

I love your ingenuity Ronnie. I set up 2 Pis to do an A/B comparison. You set up 1 Pi running Picore player 3 different ways to do comparisons. Respect!!

 

[Nifkin]

Ropieee is the product of a single individual based in Holland. His name is Harry!

Haha fair enough: I assumed our new member Gustav had joined to champion Ropiee's wears