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Leak Stereo 30 Plus

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FWIW I have 2 x Stereo 30+ and a Stereo 30, IMHO the pluses sound better and are much easier to work

33 minutes ago, Baggawire said:

Breaking news. Wammer disagrees with other Wammers' opinions.

And it only took 8 years. 

FWIW I have 2 x Stereo 30+ and a Stereo 30, IMHO the pluses sound better and are much easier to work on.

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35 minutes ago, Baggawire said:

Breaking news. Wammer disagrees with other Wammers' opinions.

And it only took 8 years. 

FWIW I have 2 x Stereo 30+ and a Stereo 30, IMHO the pluses sound better and are much easier to work on.

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1 hour ago, wizmax said:

FWIW I have 2 x Stereo 30+ and a Stereo 30, IMHO the pluses sound better and are much easier to work on.

No they don't and no they are not ;-) 

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Super Wammer

All together now...........................Oh yes they do!

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1 hour ago, Speedracer said:

All together now...........................Oh yes they do!

Both are severely underpowered (my first amp was a Stereo 30) - any differences in sound are whiskers apart and my advice is do what i did and get a Stereo 70 which at least drives most speakers with ease and is very pleasant on the ear as well .. 

Such arguments are anusing - these were first generation transistor amps and the budget offerings from the mid to late 70s had stepped up a few notches in  circuit design, sound quality  and power wise.   

If you love the looks of the Leak Stereo 30 and 30+ then do yourself a favour and get the original Sugden A21 or A48 which outperform the Leaks by a fair margin  

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Guest chris217
6 hours ago, EbbandFlow said:

Again more unquantifiable BS. Why is the Quad better than the Leak?  Maybe you should do a side by side. Leak easily equals Quad in all forms!  This is the kind of crap one expects at football matches👹

My parents has a Leak Stereo 30 plus and I had a Quad 33 and still have a 303 and I used both makes for a number of years.

The engineering on the Quad was better than the Leak - the 303 especially. There are lots of details in the circuit design that favour the Quad. The build quality of the Quad was better too. For example, the Leak had the bridge rectifier diodes soldered directly to the mains transformer terminals and they sat over the transformer, getting most of its heat. That is not good for reliability, but is a lot cheaper than the Quad solution of a bridge rectifier mounted on the chassis, which acts as a heat sink.

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1 hour ago, chris217 said:

My parents has a Leak Stereo 30 plus and I had a Quad 33 and still have a 303 and I used both makes for a number of years.

The engineering on the Quad was better than the Leak - the 303 especially. There are lots of details in the circuit design that favour the Quad. The build quality of the Quad was better too. For example, the Leak had the bridge rectifier diodes soldered directly to the mains transformer terminals and they sat over the transformer, getting most of its heat. That is not good for reliability, but is a lot cheaper than the Quad solution of a bridge rectifier mounted on the chassis, which acts as a heat sink.

I do not doubt the build is better in the Quad (though why do the caps in a quad seem to leak after not so many years and yet do not seem to be a problem on the Leak?) and I do not doubt that soldering rectifier diodes to the Transformer terminals direct is less than ideal .. however, when it comes to long term reliablity I had to recap my brothers 303 twice over a 20 year period yet never had to touch the Leak. 

What is certain is there was a significant price difference between the Quad and the Leak so on that basis alone one would not expect the Leak to have better or even equal levels of engineering but the fact that people argue over which sounds best is high praise indeed for the "budget" Leak.

The sad thing is of course is neither the Leak or Quad transistor amps came anywhere close soundwise to the earlier valve models they replaced 

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14 hours ago, EbbandFlow said:

Again more unquantifiable BS. Why is the Quar better than the Leak?  Maybe you should do a side by side. Leak easily equals Quad in all forms!  This is the kind of crap one expects at football matches👹

That's a little rude don't you think?

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5 minutes ago, HectorHughMunro said:

That's a little rude don't you think?

Well it was certainly off topic ..  you are entitled to your opinion.  Mind you he might have been referring to his comment being the kind of crap you hear at football matches (long shot I know).

When it comes to the valve amps there are two clubs who argue one sounds better than the other but the valves were great from both camps.  So I would declarre it a draw as non user who has just auditioned both on many occasions.

On the transistor front, I had a Stereo 30 and upgraded to the 70.  My brother had the old Stereo 30.  He upgraded to the 33/303 and it did sound better than the old Leak 30 and it was a hard task telling the 33/303 apart from the 70.  In the end it is a bit of a pointless argument for anyone to have - if you have one or the other and love it then that is all that matters innit.   

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On 02/12/2018 at 16:39, uzzy said:

I do not doubt the build is better in the Quad (though why do the caps in a quad seem to leak after not so many years and yet do not seem to be a problem on the Leak?) and I do not doubt that soldering rectifier diodes to the Transformer terminals direct is less than ideal .. however, when it comes to long term reliablity I had to recap my brothers 303 twice over a 20 year period yet never had to touch the Leak. 

What is certain is there was a significant price difference between the Quad and the Leak so on that basis alone one would not expect the Leak to have better or even equal levels of engineering but the fact that people argue over which sounds best is high praise indeed for the "budget" Leak.

The sad thing is of course is neither the Leak or Quad transistor amps came anywhere close soundwise to the earlier valve models they replaced 

The problem with the 303 capacitors is that they are mounted upside down - partly to get them to fit in the case with the bulkier capacitors available when it was designed - and when they leak, the fluid goes all over one of the circuit boards. When I replaced my capacitors in my 303, I put them in the other way up, with the terminals at the top.

The Quad and Leak solid state amplifiers had better sound quality than their predecessors. It is much harder to design accurate valve amps than transistor ones, especially with the technology available when the 303 and 30 plus came out. Manufacturers ditched valves for the better solid state technology as soon as possible for very good technical reasons.

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1 hour ago, chris217 said:

The problem with the 303 capacitors is that they are mounted upside down - partly to get them to fit in the case with the bulkier capacitors available when it was designed - and when they leak, the fluid goes all over one of the circuit boards. When I replaced my capacitors in my 303, I put them in the other way up, with the terminals at the top.

The Quad and Leak solid state amplifiers had better sound quality than their predecessors. It is much harder to design accurate valve amps than transistor ones, especially with the technology available when the 303 and 30 plus came out. Manufacturers ditched valves for the better solid state technology as soon as possible for very good technical reasons.

A personal viewpoint - check out the prices of the Leak and Quad valve amps second hand compaired to the transistor ones.  With the introduction of semiconductors there were trade offs (particularly when driven to clipping which was not uncommon with fairly low powered amplifiers.  To my ears the sound of the valve Quads and Leaks is infinitely preferable.   Of course what we like is not necessarily based on accuracy. 

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Guest chris217
18 hours ago, uzzy said:

A personal viewpoint - check out the prices of the Leak and Quad valve amps second hand compared to the transistor ones.  With the introduction of semiconductors there were trade offs (particularly when driven to clipping which was not uncommon with fairly low powered amplifiers.  To my ears the sound of the valve Quads and Leaks is infinitely preferable.   Of course what we like is not necessarily based on accuracy. 

No, not a personal viewpoint, engineering fact. That they sound different is very likely and, as you say, some people may have a preference for a valve sound and be prepared to pay a premium for it. However, by any objective criteria the older valved amps mentioned are technically inferior to their solid state successors and certainly to competent modern solid state amplifiers.

The only time my 303 remotely came to clipping was when I was using it as a bass guitar amplifier in a large room with a loud band. :rockin: It is built like a tank.

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2 hours ago, chris217 said:

No, not a personal viewpoint, engineering fact. That they sound different is very likely and, as you say, some people may have a preference for a valve sound and be prepared to pay a premium for it. However, by any objective criteria the older valved amps mentioned are technically inferior to their solid state successors and certainly to competent modern solid state amplifiers.

The only time my 303 remotely came to clipping was when I was using it as a bass guitar amplifier in a large room with a loud band. :rockin: It is built like a tank.

Yes it is a personal viewpoint - the Audio Archives did a lot of work coming up with the pros and cons of both valve amps and solid state amps .. whichever way you look at it (and even moreso with the first transistor amps playing with a new medium and with still so much to learn)  http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm    

In the end it is all about personal opinion as to which you prefer.   Put the 303 on a pair of speakers needing some balls to drive them and you can get it to clip quite easily.  I do not doubt it is built like a tank (albeit one with leaky bits if you do not modify it) and for the first generation of transistors is a great amp .. but as to better than its predecessor the 202 methinks the judge at the end of the day is the price commanded second hand by the kit - it would seem that the buying public at large think the 202 is far superior (and they wouldn't be wrong)  :cafe:

For those interested more in realism and not opinion you might like a read of this http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm

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On 03/12/2018 at 09:44, HectorHughMunro said:

That's a little rude don't you think?

Oh yes sorry about thst

looked at the post thinking it was about this amp you know to learn something as my kid just got one but mostly read the usual with opinions being touted as facts and got a little annoyed at wasting time 

well spotted too the football analogy was exactly that  I didn’t realise it was so obscure 😅

very humbly yours

hapy chistmas to all

ebb

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On 06/12/2018 at 05:43, uzzy said:

Yes it is a personal viewpoint - the Audio Archives did a lot of work coming up with the pros and cons of both valve amps and solid state amps .. whichever way you look at it (and even moreso with the first transistor amps playing with a new medium and with still so much to learn)  http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm    

In the end it is all about personal opinion as to which you prefer.   Put the 303 on a pair of speakers needing some balls to drive them and you can get it to clip quite easily.  I do not doubt it is built like a tank (albeit one with leaky bits if you do not modify it) and for the first generation of transistors is a great amp .. but as to better than its predecessor the 202 methinks the judge at the end of the day is the price commanded second hand by the kit - it would seem that the buying public at large think the 202 is far superior (and they wouldn't be wrong)  :cafe:

For those interested more in realism and not opinion you might like a read of this http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm

Thanks. Interesting article until reading it and owning both tyoes I was leaning towards the solid state must be superior camp and valves sound better because they look better subjective all in the mind opinion however I can now understand the reasoning is indeed based on quantifiable scientific measurement. 

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