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14 hours ago, DavidHB said:

I see the hierarchy as a means of achieving "balance", by which I mean that synergy between components which provides the best results with the resources available. Circumstances alter cases, so it is wrong to follow the hierarchy slavishly, but I think that it is well tested enough by now that it should be used as the default starting point for identifying the next system improvement.

David

You could define a balanced system as  one in which each component is able to give of something approaching its best , with no one component unduly limiting the performance of another.

[Or put another way ,  90% of the system isn't rendered a complete waste of money because the other 10% is rubbish :D]

The strict hierarchy is  usually valid...but its application should always  be lubricated with a little common sense.  

Edited by Smokestack
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2 hours ago, Smokestack said:

You could define a balanced system as  one in which each component is able to give of something approaching its best , with no one component unduly limiting the performance of another.

[Or put another way ,  90% of the system isn't rendered a complete waste of money because the other 10% is rubbish :D]

The strict hierarchy is  usually valid...but its application should always  be lubricated with a little common sense.  

I believe and hope that we have found different ways of saying the same thing. Which is good, because the points we are making are at the heart of this and every similar discussion.

David

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14 hours ago, DavidHB said:

I see the hierarchy as a means of achieving "balance", by which I mean that synergy between components which provides the best results with the resources available. Circumstances alter cases, so it is wrong to follow the hierarchy slavishly, but I think that it is well tested enough by now that it should be used as the default starting point for identifying the next system improvement.

David

I can basically agree with this comment and I have advocated stepping outside a strict hierarchy approach when there is a financial benefit to do so or when a defective component requires replacement.  However, it is important to note that balance as described above has nothing to do with how much the various components cost, nor whether their name starts with Majik, Akurate or Klimax, etc.  It only has to do with choosing the components that will provide the most musical enjoyment for the intended budget. 

In this sense a system with a $349 Cambridge AXA35 Integrated amplifier and a pair of PSB Alpha P3s at $219 the set fronted by an $1,150 Rega Planar 3/Elys 2 would be IMHO a balanced system.   I would unhesitatingly recommend it to somebody looking for a vinyl only playback system with a budget of about $1800 (to cover the K20 speaker cables too).  Got a little more money?  Go up to a Planar 6/Exakt combo and you get even more music for another $850 and still what I consider a balanced system as there is no other way to spend $2850 and get more musical enjoyment.  (All prices in US dollars.)  To give a more Linn centric version a Majik LP12 at $4320 plus a Radikal at $4250 (total $8570 or less with Majik PSU trade in) will handily outperform an Akurate LP12 at $10,270.

I have taken systems with various speakers to RMAF and Axpona and have received very positive reviews, including a Best Sound of Show award from Part-Time Audiophile for a system using $1766 a pair speakers driven by a $26,000 Klimax LP12 and $19,800 of Lejonklou electronics.  My current system has a $42,700 phono stage - almost twice the cost of my $22,760 Klimax LP12 (lower price due to the removal of the Urika) which uses updated versions of the same Lejonklou Mono preamps and power amps to drive a rebuilt pair of 1978 Quad ESL speakers that probably would sell for under $4000 (although they are back in production at QUAD Musikwiedergabe for €8290).  Why spend twice as much on the phono stage as on the turntable?  Because if you have the most musical turntable available, as I believe the full Klimax LP12 with custom Woodson movingui plinth to be, then having the best MC phono stages (Lejonklou SINGularity mono blocks) to allow you to hear even more of the music on the record makes sense - of course only if you can afford it.  I and others who have heard it consider it an extremely well balanced and musical system, despite the price (and age) disparities here and there in the system.

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8 hours ago, kelly200269 said:

I must admit my ‘head’ says Lingo 4/Kore, with the amount of use she gets, and will get, but I’m still open to the idea of Radikal/Keel, if the improvement is marked.

My experience has been that, with first getting and then upgrading an LP12, I am listening to vinyl more and more. I only have about 250 LPs, but most of them are decades old, and hearing them on the LP12 has been a voyage of rediscovery (as well as an incentive to buy more at the gratifyingly low prices charged by my local charity shop). With 3,000 records in your collection, your voyage of rediscovery will be much more wide-ranging than mine could be. You might well find that, if the budget runs to Radikal/Keel, the extra cost of the upgrade will pay for itself in terms of increased usage and enjoyment.

That said, I fully agree with your reasons for staying with the Adikt. While I think that there is always a good reason for fitting the best quality LP12 "infrastructure" that one can afford, the move from MM to MC cartridge is IMO a different kind of decision, and, for the reasons you give, should only be contemplated when you are sure that the MM cartridge has given you all it can. And, as you say, the Adikt can give a great deal - far more, indeed than some folk credit it with.

David

Edited by DavidHB

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45 minutes ago, DavidHB said:

I believe and hope that we have found different ways of saying the same thing. Which is good, because the points we are making are at the heart of this and every similar discussion.

David

Quite so .

 Let's put it this way...

When I was in the trade I had some very happy customers with systems at every  level of cost and performance.

Those customers were the ones with systems which  "covered their tracks" well . You can never hear anything wrong with a well balanced system...until you compare it with something altogether better.

[ I also had some customers who, despite my best efforts, insisted on upgrading "arse about tit" . They were never happy with their systems ...but were always going to be happy after the next upgrade  .:S]

Edited by Smokestack
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OK. Radikal & Keel ordered!

I’m NOT telling the wife how much!! lol

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47 minutes ago, kelly200269 said:

OK. Radikal & Keel ordered!

I’m NOT telling the wife how much!! lol

Three good ideas in two sentences!:D

Edited by ThomasOK
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42 minutes ago, kelly200269 said:

OK. Radikal & Keel ordered!

I’m NOT telling the wife how much!! lol

Congratulations! I'm certainly getting lots of enjoyment from my latest Keel upgrade as I did with the Radikal upgrade so together they should make a big difference. Hope you spend many hours listening to vinyl. 

Cheers Ady 

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1 hour ago, kelly200269 said:

OK. Radikal & Keel ordered!

That's the way to do it.

1 hour ago, kelly200269 said:

I’m NOT telling the wife how much!! lol

Advice from a Sandgrounder born and bred: go and hide out on the sandhills at Southport for a while - she'll never find you there ... :) 

David

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They had a wide selection of LP12’s at ‘House of Linn’, and I went yesterday with a very large dose of skepticism. I hadn’t really heard another LP12 for over thirty-years, since I bought mine. But I was also of the mindset: ‘Can it really get much better? How can a different motor improve the quality of reproduction?’, etc.

I was both surprised and delighted about the improvements different upgrades made. I’m not a ‘serial upgrader’, so in the end I just thought ‘Go for it!’ I’m now looking forward to rediscovering my vinyl collection, in the time I have left on this bit of rock.

And Brian & Trevor at House of Linn are absolutely great guys. I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend them!

Edited by kelly200269
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1 hour ago, kelly200269 said:

Brian & Trevor at House of Linn are absolutely great guys. I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend them!

Agreed - I travel 155 miles to visit them.

’troll

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On ‎07‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 17:01, kelly200269 said:

OK. Radikal & Keel ordered!

I’m NOT telling the wife how much!! lol

OK ,

 So what's it worth for us not to tell her :D

[ My problem has always been that the dragon indoors controls all our finances ...she used to work at the bank :S]

Edited by Smokestack
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