chebby

Driver of 116 year old car dies in M23 accident.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-50281989

... we’ve all seen them, on the motorway, usually during the summer, elderly drivers in their cherished old classics, on their way to a show, or an event, hunched over their steering wheels and cursing all the other drivers for being ‘maniacs’ and going ‘too fast’.

However they are usually in 1950s or 1960s cars that can at least go around 50-60 mph with a good wind behind them.

This poor old bloke (died in the accident on the M23) was in a 1903 car!  There needs to be laws to prevent cars without adequate power, decent brakes, modern tyres, seatbelts etc. from driving on ANY road let alone a motorway.

Private land ok, so long as they arrive and depart on trailers.

Edited by chebby
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Firstly, the London-Brighton run is impeccably organised, where they close roads off for the day and they have stewards all the way along the 60 mile route. All motorways are avoided.

Secondly, if someone enters a motorway by mistake (highly unlikely), cars of this vintage aren't exactly stealthy, which begs the question how did the lorry hit the car when the M23 is 3 lanes wide plus a hard shoulder?

Given that both driver and passenger were in their late 70s early 80s it is possible that he tried to avoid Clayton Hill by using the motorway. Clayton Hill is notorious for being a vintage car killer, and unless you are physically fit you won't get it going again. That's just a wild guess though.

I agree with Chebby (to a point) vintage cars should not use ordinary roads unless it's something like an organised run.

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Firstly, the London-Brighton run is impeccably organised, where they close roads off for the day and they have stewards all the way along the 60 mile route. All motorways are avoided.

Secondly, if someone enters a motorway by mistake (highly unlikely), cars of this vintage aren't exactly stealthy, which begs the question how did the lorry hit the car when the M23 is 3 lanes wide plus a hard shoulder?

I agree with Chebby (to a point) vintage cars should not use ordinary roads unless it's something like an organised run.

Playing devil's advocate the same could be said about horses and cyclists for similar reasons. 

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Playing devil's advocate the same could be said about horses and cyclists for similar reasons. 

At least they aren't allowed on motorways. Mind you, most drivers shouldn't either.

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At least they aren't allowed on motorways. Mind you, most drivers shouldn't either.

Especially BMW and Audi drivers. 

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Do you have a cut off age for the car? :roll:

Well most BMW and Audi drivers are maniacs but especially those driving 06 plates and older. 

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God Morning All,

As a classic car owner I would suggest that ALL drivers of ALL vehicles on ALL roads should drive with due care and attention.

The facts of this case need to be determined. If I had been that 80yr old driver of a 116yr old car I wouldn't have been anywhere near a motorway especially in the SE of the country BUT let's not penalise ALL owners and vehicles as a result of the one incident. ANY response needs to be proportionate.

Regards

Richard

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God Morning All,

As a classic car owner I would suggest that ALL drivers of ALL vehicles on ALL roads should drive with due care and attention.

The facts of this case need to be determined. If I had been that 80yr old driver of a 116yr old car I wouldn't have been anywhere near a motorway especially in the SE of the country BUT let's not penalise ALL owners and vehicles as a result of the one incident. ANY response needs to be proportionate.

Regards

Richard

Totally agree, but where would the fun be in that :D.

:close:

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The state decided last year that any car older than 40 years was exempt from an MOT. That was up to 290,000 more vehicles of which 117,000 didn’t already have one!

It’s bad enough that all these death-traps were allowed back on the road with their all-round drum brakes, lack of three point seat-belts, chromed metal protuberances for spearing pedestrians in collisions, non collapsible steering columns, lack of air-bags, puny engines (mostly), no crumple zone body shells, non-existent ABS, inefficient headlights ... etc.

So you can take any 40+ year-old POS, safety nightmare onto any road with no state imposed safety checks at all. 
 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mot-exemption-cars-over-40-years-old-starts-20-may

Edited by chebby

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The state decided last year that any car older than 40 years was exempt from an MOT. That was up to 290,000 more vehicles of which 117,000 didn’t already have one!

It’s bad enough that all these death-traps were allowed back on the road with their all-round drum brakes, lack of three point seat-belts, chromed metal protuberances for spearing pedestrians in collisions, non collapsible steering columns, lack of air-bags, puny engines (mostly), no crumple zone body shells, non-existent ABS, inefficient headlights ... etc.

So you can take any 40+ year-old POS, safety nightmare onto any road with no state imposed safety checks at all. 
 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mot-exemption-cars-over-40-years-old-starts-20-may

Let me give you a fact or two: Agree about a car not having an MOT is wrong, however, the owners of these vintage cars are incredibly knowledgeable in terms of how the cars work, their limitations etc etc... unlike modern cars these vintage specimans aren't used on a daily basis on a school run or to Tesco. They are used purely for organised runs.

The MOT exemption is optional. There are many vintage car garages around who can check to make sure it is road worthy, and having volunteered at Brooklands Museum I know a high percentage are donated to museums for display purposes and the owners can only access their vehicles on special occasions, after a thorough mechanical check.

Plus with a maximum speed of around 7 mph, and driven on a motorway, brakes are going to be the last thing you use.

Whether the driver had all his marbles is another subject all-together. I'm struggling to think how he could enter a motorway where there's a planned route using only A roads and country lanes. 

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Let me give you a fact or two: Agree about a car not having an MOT is wrong, however, the owners of these vintage cars are incredibly knowledgeable in terms of how the cars work, their limitations etc etc... unlike modern cars these vintage specimans aren't used on a daily basis on a school run or to Tesco. They are used purely for organised runs.

The MOT exemption is optional. There are many vintage car garages around who can check to make sure it is road worthy, and having volunteered at Brooklands Museum I know a high percentage are donated to museums for display purposes and the owners can only access their vehicles on special occasions, after a thorough mechanical check.

These cars were unsafe even when fresh off the production line 40, 50, 60 or more years ago.  Modern cars are incredibly safer by comparison.

Owner knowledge cannot improve their car’s accident performance nor mitigate the impact on other passing road users should they be collided with.

If anything the MOT should be tougher on ‘classics’ intended for public road use (no matter whether the mileage is limited or not).

I’d want to see them all converted to ABS disc brakes (at the very least the front ones) and owners compelled to fit good, modern 12V headlights and 3 point inertia reel seatbelts and efficient, low emission engines.

There should also be a ban on carrying children in cars without restraints and air bags etc.
 

Edited by chebby
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The Police once stopped a ‘classic’ car that was doing about 20mph on the inside lane of a motorway in the wet. The driver explained they were on their way to a car show and were worried about getting too much dirt in the wheel arches!

The Police inspected the car and found a number of other problems and decided to have a recovery truck take it to be thoroughly inspected by a mechanic.

The major fault (and the real reason for the low speed) turned out to be hand tightened nuts securing the top of the suspension/shock assemblies to the bodyshell. They had not torqued them properly tight - to handbook recommended values - because it might cause cracking of a new paint job in the vicinity of the nuts and they were due to judged at a concourse d’elegance event ...

4EF06B02-A843-42A7-990A-0E8C529A5657.jpeg

Edited by chebby

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