Tim F

Cheap versus expensive dacs

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Super Dealer

A properly engineered component in this case a dac is going to be audibly transparent , you may not like that of course .

Keith

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A properly engineered component in this case a dac is going to be audibly transparent , you may not like that of course .

Keith

There is one chap Amir measuring them on the same parameters with the same equipment for years.  But dac's seem to be improving and getting better every year. So maybe he doesn't know what to measure anymore or his equipment probably needs a service :D

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Keith dosent love his wife because he can't measure that feeling, it's subjective and therefore false, it's based on belief rather than physical evidence and Amir hasn't produced a forum entry for it yet.

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I'm with Keith, I appreciate the sound of kit but I would purposefully avoid something with obvious flaws. As I only ever buy kit, sell it on for fun and almost never visit a dealer I can't afford the risk....

Now the flip side would be if I heard it up against lots of DACs and liked it.

B|

Edited by Tim F
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I'm with Keith, I appreciate the sound of kit but I would purposefully avoid something with obvious floors. As I only ever buy kit, sell it on for fun and almost never visit a dealer I can't afford the risk....

Now the flip side would be if I heard it up against lots of DACs and liked it.

B|

That depends on what you define as a 'flaw' (floor).

Nothing Amir writes about I consider as a flaw because it sounds good.

So its not a flaw if it sounds good. Cause its audio?

I mean it would definitely be a flaw if it was designed to help men overcome impotence but did nothing for that other than make noise and left his whizzle as stubby as a chipolata. That would be flawed. 

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Keith dosent love his wife because he can't measure that feeling, it's subjective and therefore false, it's based on belief rather than physical evidence and Amir hasn't produced a forum entry for it yet.

Do you really feel it's appropriate to make the above comment because it seems in bad taste to me.

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Do you really feel it's appropriate to make the above comment because it seems in bad taste to me.

I thought it was pretty funny myself, don't be so soft.

I find constant repetitive posts are bad taste, but c'est la vie init blood.

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Actually we can never compensate for hearing with our ears. Something measuring well does not automatically mean better sounding. In some cases yes hifi can measure well and sound good. 

Saying we know it all about measurements and sound is just pure arrogance. ¬¬ 

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Actually we can never compensate for hearing with our ears. Something measuring well does not automatically mean better sounding. In some cases yes hifi can measure well and sound good. 

Saying we know it all about measurements and sound is just pure arrogance¬¬ 

Very true...and if we haven't learnt these lessons by now....

Historically the measurements haven't been a problem ...but we've sometimes  been mistaken about  which measurements are musically important and which  less so.

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Super Dealer

A dac is a digital to analogue converter, it should neither add nor subtract, the science is mature , of course you may prefer the sound of a poor design with added noise and distortion .

Keith

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A dac is a digital to analogue converter, it should neither add nor subtract, the science is mature , of course you may prefer the sound of a poor design with added noise and distortion .

Keith

:doh:

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I have four DACs -- a Deltec, an MSB (not an expensive one -- Gold Link), a Museatex and a Theta. I resently compared them all with each other -- apart from the Museatex -- and I was astonished how good the theta is, for both the quality of the bass and the liveliness and 3D nature of the image. These DACs were expensive new but I paid about £250 for mine on ebay. As a result of the experiment I've just bought myself another Theta, at much the same price. 

The one that I felt was least satisfactory was the Deltec (Bigger Bit.), it seemed unnaturally forward and bright. I've never tried a chord DAC, but I guess that they would be similar. As always I suppose, taste and synergy matter -- both Deltec and Chord are pretty widely appreciated. 

The experiment was with Spendor SP1s and Electrocmpaniet ECI-2. 

Edited by Howard

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Super Wammer
 

A dac is a digital to analogue converter, it should neither add nor subtract, the science is mature , of course you may prefer the sound of a poor design with added noise and distortion .

Keith

A favourite saying of my late father in law was, "There is often much less to things than meets the eye". This was against the background of my mother in law who was an inveterate conspiracy theorist.

I have often used his little saying to great effect but it does not always apply and in the case of digital audio I suspect you read too much of what your hero Amir posts. The science of digital audio is only 'mature' at a simplistic level and is still being refined and better understood as to what aspects of it are important for more accurate conversion back to the original analogue signal.

Of course of one has a complicated product such as a speaker with multiple DACs in it then there is advantage in alleging that the DACs have no influence on the sound but there are many who would not support that view and in that case there is perhaps more to it that meets YOUR eye but maybe all that means is that you have a blinkered view on these matters.

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A dac is a digital to analogue converter, it should neither add nor subtract, the science is mature , of course you may prefer the sound of a poor design with added noise and distortion .

Keith

Where did you earn your Bsc/Msc/PHD in a 'science' related subject? Curious. What was the title of your thesis?

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No I haven’t , I couldn’t live with such poor engineering.

Keith

Hi Keith,

sorry for my late reply (i went out to listen to some live music, Molly Tuttle at Chalk, Brighton - if you didn't go, you missed a treat !). how do you know you couldn't live with such poor engineering if you haven't lived with it ?

This repeated 'measurement only' mantra is akin to a Flat earther, that suspects the earth is round, but refuses to think for themselves and investigate, in fear (and it is FEAR) that everything they think they know is wrong.

Tell me Keith, are you a glass is half empty type of chap....do you need a hug ?

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