kensalriser

Speaker conundrums - PMC v ProAc v Spendor v ATC

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Revamping my system, currently Roksan Xerxes/RB300, Naim 102/180 and Royd Apex.  Looking to add a Naim HDX or similar in due course.  I'd like a more modern pair of speakers that will be a decent step up from the Royds and my head is spinning trying to make sense of the possibilities.   The room is a little over 4m square plus a large bay, nine inch brick walls but a lot of window behind/above the speakers, which are located at the inside edges of the bay.  Music is all sorts, lots of electronic dance but also some rock, reggae, funk, jazz and classical. 

Used PMCs seem to be readily available but in a bewildering array of similar looking models that I'm finding difficulty ranking.  I think the Twenty 23 or 24 might fit the bill, but there's also the FB1 and the OB1 (plus their i versions).  I love the look of the FACT8 but probably too big/expensive.  I've also been musing ATC SCM40 Mk1, ProAc Response D28 and Spendor D7.  Others I'm looking at with less enthusiasm are Naim Ovator 400 (aesthetics/equivocal reviews) and Spendor S6/S8 (equivocal reviews). 

I don't have a budget as such, as there's always a trade-off between quality and age (I tend towards quality over youth), but somewhere between £500-£1500ish. 

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Super Wammer

Will you be able to audition what you choose?  If not, it’s best to buy something you can resell easily, and the PMC are the most prolific, imo.  You won’t get Fact models with your budget  

From your list, if you can get Spendor D7 for £1500 that’d be where I’d spend my money, because I prefer them to PMCs, though PMC often go well with Naim.  You’ll see I have the newer ATCs, but I can’t recommend the earlier ones without you hearing them. 

PS. You just missed a pair of D7s from the classifieds here!

Edited by Nopiano
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2 hours ago, kensalriser said:

Used PMCs seem to be readily available but in a bewildering array of similar looking models that I'm finding difficulty ranking.  I think the Twenty 23 or 24 might fit the bill, but there's also the FB1 and the OB1 (plus their i versions).  I love the look of the FACT8 but probably too big/expensive.  

Twenty 23 will be in budget, as will FB1's - look for the 'I' versions if going for the previous range (twenty was following range, and they're now onto twenty five range but these are much more expensive). OB1s you'll struggle on your budget and Facts are way out of price range.

There are some OB1's in the classifieds, but beyond your budget. If going for PMC's I'd go for Twenty 24's. But as ever audition if you can.

FWIW I am currently shopping, albeit very slowly for some PMC's for myself - I'll be going for 20/24 or OB1i's.

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I had Mk1 ATC40's,  you need a bit more grunt than a Naim 180 is likely to give IMO,  plus having just got some SCM11 mk2 I think the newer models (tweeter) far better.

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I can highly recommend Russell K to add to your list to try. I have a very similar set up to yourself (102 and 180 with an Avondale TPR4 psu). 

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19 hours ago, kensalriser said:

Revamping my system, currently Roksan Xerxes/RB300, Naim 102/180 and Royd Apex.  Looking to add a Naim HDX or similar in due course.  I'd like a more modern pair of speakers that will be a decent step up from the Royds and my head is spinning trying to make sense of the possibilities.   The room is a little over 4m square plus a large bay, nine inch brick walls but a lot of window behind/above the speakers, which are located at the inside edges of the bay.  Music is all sorts, lots of electronic dance but also some rock, reggae, funk, jazz and classical. 

Used PMCs seem to be readily available but in a bewildering array of similar looking models that I'm finding difficulty ranking.  I think the Twenty 23 or 24 might fit the bill, but there's also the FB1 and the OB1 (plus their i versions).  I love the look of the FACT8 but probably too big/expensive.  I've also been musing ATC SCM40 Mk1, ProAc Response D28 and Spendor D7.  Others I'm looking at with less enthusiasm are Naim Ovator 400 (aesthetics/equivocal reviews) and Spendor S6/S8 (equivocal reviews). 

I don't have a budget as such, as there's always a trade-off between quality and age (I tend towards quality over youth), but somewhere between £500-£1500ish. 

With your Naim Nap 180 PMC FB1i is certainly the way to go. They are easy to drive and match sonically well with older Naims. Likewise older Neat speakers, such as Motive 1. Both brands are fabulous matches and not too demanding.

I would also recommend Dynaudio Contour range but they are quite demanding and not sure whether 60 watts per channel would be enough. When I heard the XS (70 watts) that sounded like it was near the limit....

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Agree that the 180 isn't enough amp for the ATC's. They are a sealed box design & quite inefficient to drive. Blooming lovely though.

A mate of mine with a Vitus integrated amp recently went from PMC Twenty 24's to ATCscm40 mk2 & they sound excellent.

A bay window between your speakers can do some weird things to the sound, so a home demo will be pretty important if possible.

PMC's usually have a decent bass on em, so should suit your musical preferences? The Pro-Acs could also work well. 

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10 minutes ago, manicatel said:

Agree that the 180 isn't enough amp for the ATC's. They are a sealed box design & quite inefficient to drive. Blooming lovely though.

A mate of mine with a Vitus integrated amp recently went from PMC Twenty 24's to ATCscm40 mk2 & they sound excellent.

A bay window between your speakers can do some weird things to the sound, so a home demo will be pretty important if possible.

PMC's usually have a decent bass on em, so should suit your musical preferences? The Pro-Acs could also work well. 

Agree re the bay window. A front ported design may help minimise the impact.

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I love my PMCs, if you can get the OB1i you should find them a massive upgrade.

I would say a bit more power is required and would prioritise that over an NDX.

You might find some Bryston amps if you keep a careful eye on classifieds

Think and audition very carefully before you get an NDX, the very low power output, high distortion and price would rule it out for me.

What do you want to achieve? For streaming we've regressed to a wired setup through a PC in the kitchen controllable from tablet or phone.

The PC is more than adequate for any internet source.

It pains me to say that you might get more out of the Royds with a lot more power / headroom!

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Standard advice. Listen to a few options here there or anywhere to get some idea of the presentation you like. Then once you've narrowed it down to one or two, try anything to get a home audition. I agree that rear-ported may be an issue with the bay window, but then a bay window can be an issue full stop, so I wouldn't rule anything in or out without trying.

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Super Dealer

I wouldn’t worry about porting, or the bay window, if the bay is single glazed then less rear propagated bass is going to be reflected, double glazed will reflect more bass, as would a solid wall.

Keith

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Super Wammer
1 hour ago, timmytiger said:

Think and audition very carefully before you get an NDX, the very low power output, high distortion and price would rule it out for me.

It’s not an amplifier, but a streamer, so I don’t follow your point about very low power.  Were you thinking of something else?

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Sorry, It's a long time since I started streaming, could I be thinking about a Uniti?

Looks about right, I remember moaning about the small screen too!

Must also confess that at the time I upgraded the second system to a Crown / JBL combination so you'll now ignore me!

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Super Wammer
2 hours ago, lostwin said:

Agree re the bay window. A front ported design may help minimise the impact.

I suspect you mean “not rear ported” which would include unported like the ATC’s and downward ported like current ProAcs.

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