George 47

What's in a Naim?

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It’s all out there if you are interested ...

https://www.creekaudio.com/history/

http://www.epos-loudspeakers.com/company/

(Although Epos are a lot more ‘selective’ and don’t mention the 11 years spent under TGI/Mordaunt Short ownership.)

Edited by chebby

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2 hours ago, chebby said:

This all happened back in the late 1980s...........

Thanks for the information there and clarifying that.

2 hours ago, chebby said:

built at the old Goodmans plant

Now theres a company that used to make some very fine loudspeakers at one point in time.   

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On 11/10/2019 at 00:36, George 47 said:

I have a Naim 250DR here and have listened to it for a few weeks. I use it with a Townshend Allegri passive. The sound is different, a development, from the earlier fast and pacey amps. Despite being fast and pacey those older amps did not have a very real sound. The new amps have a sound that is less intense and mid frequency emphasised to a much more even sound. There is now some really deep bass and some sparkle in the high end. All achieved without losing too much of the speed of the older Naims.

No, it does not take on valve amplifiers in their mid-range or 3D sound, but since having it in circuit I have listened more and more to modern pop and rock music. My favourite. The DR version plays classical well (unlike the older amps). As I am not a fan of jazz and valves excel with jazz, using the Naim 250DR is not a loss for me.

I have not listened to it extensively to form a full view but would be interested in people’s views. Have you heard the DR variant of Naim amps and what were your thoughts? Please no crap/brilliant comments as they are not very illustrative. What is about them that appeals/detracts?  

The NAP 250DR is an excellent amp which I use in my main system, fronted by the NAC 282 and Hicap DR. There are few who run the NAP 250DR directly with a Chord DAVE. It's a very balanced sounding amp - fast, pacey, dynamic but still having an organic sound to it. Bass is not only deep but layered, treble is nicely illuminated without sounding shrill. A good quality source or DAC is necessary or one would get a dull sound or rolled-off treble with the 282/250DR. I use a Chord QBD76 DAC and the Naim/Chord pairing sounds sublime.

I listen to a lot of jazz fusion and smooth jazz and the NAP 250DR delivers for me. In my view, the NAP 250DR is the best value Naim amplifier if your speakers aren't too demanding. Although the 300DR is superior in most systems, it is a 2-box combination and costs considerably more than then 250DR. I also own the NAP 200 and the 250DR is vastly superior to the 200 in areas of bass quality, transparency and realism. Sound of percussion sounds more realistic through the 250DR and you also hear the beautiful decays fading in the background more prominently than the 200. It's a keeper in my system, the NAP 250DR.

Edited by ryder
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Personally I find the newer range of components have a totally different character to the earlier kit, which in my humble opinion is much more fun. I recently went back to a NAC102 and NAP180 after being somewhat disappointed with my "upgrade" to a NAC202 and NAP200. I guess I'm a flat earther at heart. I also kinda like the utilitarian look of the older kit. It's like something your grandad knocked up in the shed on a spare Sunday afternoon!

The only Naim stuff I can't get on with is their phono stages. The plug in boards sound dull as dishwater and can be easily beaten for not much cash at all. 

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1 hour ago, ryder said:

The NAP 250DR is an excellent amp which I use in my main system, fronted by the NAC 282 and Hicap DR. There are few who run the NAP 250DR directly with a Chord DAVE. It's a very balanced sounding amp - fast, pacey, dynamic but still having an organic sound to it. Bass is not only deep but layered, treble is nicely illuminated without sounding shrill. A good quality source or DAC is necessary or one would get a dull sound or rolled-off treble with the 282/250DR. I use a Chord QBD76 DAC and the Naim/Chord pairing sounds sublime.

I listen to a lot of jazz fusion and smooth jazz and the NAP 250DR delivers for me. In my view, the NAP 250DR is the best value Naim amplifier if your speakers aren't too demanding. Although the 300DR is superior in most systems, it is a 2-box combination and costs considerably more than then 250DR. I also own the NAP 200 and the 250DR is vastly superior to the 200 in areas of bass quality, transparency and realism. Sound of percussion sounds more realistic through the 250DR and you also hear the beautiful decays fading in the background more prominently than the 200. It's a keeper in my system, the NAP 250DR.

Now I really want a NAP250DR :D

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Ryder: I agree but use it in a different way. I use an Allegri preamp following recommendations for reviewers including Martin Colloms (now on his second one due to wear). I have an Audio Note CD4T and 4.1x DAC as the front end. The two products did not explode when connected as they are polar opposites!!!! All playing into my Audio Note Es. An odd system but it works.

However, it is great fun getting guys around and asking their thoughts. 'I love it and did not expect it to work well but it is fast, pacey and lively' to 'God, it is awful and I am getting a headache, it is bright, forward and sounds totally unreal'. I was toying with trying a preamp such as the 282 or 252 and must do so one day but Jon Honeyball has said, don't bother as it sees off the 252......Fighting talk. Still puzzled why one guy can love it and another says it gives him a headache.

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Super Wammer
16 hours ago, kensalriser said:

I wonder how many hardline pro/anti Naimers would be able to pick the bones out of a blind listening session. 

I suspect many of us would struggle with any brand. We all have a certain disposition towards some designs, makers and so on, and these beliefs are hard to shake.  It’s years since I listened blind, but it’s easy to fool oneself, I’m sure of that!

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On 13/10/2019 at 14:48, George 47 said:

However, it is great fun getting guys around and asking their thoughts. 'I love it and did not expect it to work well but it is fast, pacey and lively' to 'God, it is awful and I am getting a headache, it is bright, forward and sounds totally unreal'. I was toying with trying a preamp such as the 282 or 252 and must do so one day but Jon Honeyball has said, don't bother as it sees off the 252......Fighting talk. Still puzzled why one guy can love it and another says it gives him a headache.

Big variation at our age is hearing quality; i'm very sensitive to too much treble, especially the shouty harsh treble from cheap horny PA systems.

It seems to interact with my slight tinnitus and I can't stay in the room long. I'm certain that I turn down the treble on high quality systems more now than I would have 20 years ago.

Luckily don't need to turn up the volume yet and can still hear a fairly decent frequency range, not quite an 8ve down on my youth yet.

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My feelings are two fold

Firstly that you have to have owned Naim to really comment on it with any objectivity.

Secondly I would imagine that the vast majority of those that fit that criteria voted Leave.

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2 hours ago, Tune said:

My feelings are two fold

Firstly that you have to have owned Naim to really comment on it with any objectivity.

Secondly I would imagine that the vast majority of those that fit that criteria voted Leave.

Hope you're not basing that on the inferred demographic, my 95 year old mother, partner and I and my old brother and wife are all ancient remainers.

Unfortunately my young nephew voted leave;  but it now appears he may be off to work in Europe!

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On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 22:48, linesrg said:

There may well be better systems involving different manufacturer's equipment but just how much time and effort can you put into determining this and where would it end?

Given I can find a suitably recorded piece of music either via the LP12 (or Akurate DS/3 Katalyst streamer) the system has all the musicality and foot tapping I need.

It was a long journey - some 26 years.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Regards

Richard

..but if it does break [unlikely], and even if it's 40 years old... they will fix it .

Whether or not we like the Naim sound...we have to respect their continuing attitude to service .

[Something  that a certain other  once entwined maker could learn a little from  ^_^]

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42 minutes ago, Smokestack said:

..but if it does break [unlikely], and even if it's 40 years old... they will fix it .

Whether or not we like the Naim sound...we have to respect their continuing attitude to service .

[Something  that a certain other  once entwined maker could learn a little from  ^_^]

I'm not familiar with Naim's latest products but I imagine they will have gone some way down the SMD component route, at least with the traditional PTH component construction it is 'easier' to work on.

Regards

Richard

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True Richard ... I wouldn't  quarrel one bit with that.

...but attitude is a part of it too .    It's nice when makers of high end kit recognise that, for some customers, the purchase of the best gear is a once in a lifetime only opportunity ....and that kit then needs to last half a life time.

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