forgot-my-id

Is a General Election coming ??

Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, Camverton said:

My first choice would be a confirmatory referendum on Brexit. We have to accept what we are given, however,  with a referendum and GE combined we have to use that. As such I don’t thing the Lib Dem’s would be wrong to cancel Brexit if they were elected with a majority as that is what they have clearly stated they will do. Let’s face it, it would be a nice change for a party to do what they said they’d do!

I agree with what you say to a point, if the Lib Dem's have a right to cancel Brexit then surely the Conservatives would have the same right to go ahead with Brexit because that is what they said they were going to do. 

My view is the Lib Dem policy to cancel Brexit was just to capture votes because the Conservatives are pro Brexit (generally), Labour can't make their minds up but eventually came round to offer another referendum. The Lib Dem's after shooting themselves in the foot and going into government with the Tories and screwing the student over thought this is a good way to get back their popularity.

And a confirmatory referendum would be best but there is no way that I would vote Corbyn, if they had another leader it may be different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, AntA said:

You are right I am struggling to understand this.

Does that mean to say that if the Conservatives get in they would be entirely entitled to go ahead with Brexit because it is in their manifesto and all the people trying to stop it would just accept it?

If so that is fair enough!

I'd suggest the Conservative policy is very clearly exactly this.

Re. the Lib Dems, I think it should be stressed that their policy is that Brexit should be stopped in the (extraordinarily unlikely) event that they end up with an outright majority in the House of Commons. In all other circumstances they would be pushing for a second public vote, as they have been until now, in which they would obviously campaign to stay in the EU.

I agree that a confirmatory vote on Boris Johnson's plan vs staying in the EU would have been better than a general election, and it's perhaps worth mentioning that Jo Swinson repeatedly expressed this view as well. Given that there wasn't a majority in parliament to make this happen though, a general election then became the only real option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
2 hours ago, AntA said:

You are right I am struggling to understand this.

Does that mean to say that if the Conservatives get in they would be entirely entitled to go ahead with Brexit because it is in their manifesto and all the people trying to stop it would just accept it?

If so that is fair enough!

If they get a majority in parliament, then yes they could. In theory.  However, they can't actually agree amongst themselves what they mean by leaving, in particular the ERG (the most ardent of leavers) who keep voting against leave deals. So they could still continue to prevent themselves doing what they say they want to do. Because they need the legal stuff through due process for each element going through parliament with a majority, there's every chance they'll keep tripping themselves up.  And, if Boris keeps his promise to Nigel (Boris keeping a promise, its laughable eh?) then he'll have to go back to the EU to re-open negotiations and cause himself even more delay.  They're great at not delivering what they say they want to deliver.

But there is nothing at all about democracy that says the opposition to something should ever stop opposing it.

Edited by sunbeamgls

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Labour are not exactly speaking with one voice on Brexit either. That is the problem the whole country is divided on the issue irrespective of political views. I know people who always vote Labour who want Brexit similarly I know Conservative votes who are against it. There is only one real solution which is another referendum on the understanding that even if there is only a 0.1% majority for or against people stop whinging and accept the result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As the 2016 Brexit referendum result would still stand even if the Liberals came to power they don't have the legal or democratic right to simply stop Brexit it would take another referendum surely?

Regards

Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, linesrg said:

As the 2016 Brexit referendum result would still stand even if the Liberals came to power they don't have the legal or democratic right to simply stop Brexit it would take another referendum surely?

Regards

Richard

As I wrote above it would only happen if they had a parliamentary majority and as such the argument would be that if a majority* now want to reverse the decision then frankly it would be perverse to do anything else. I'm not big on making predictions but I think we can all be pretty confident there won't be a Lib Dem majority government though so I wouldn't waste time thinking about this!

*This logic doesn't strictly hold up since a majority of seats doesn't mean a majority of the population but we do live in a parliamentary democracy. It's still not going to happen though, much as actually I'd love to see it :).

Edited by MartinC
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/11/2019 at 19:41, Lord Rockingham said:

They wouldn’t do it if fooking imbeciles didn’t believe everything they say. It only takes one or two brainless troglodytes to fall for the bullshit and bingo, you get to shaft the population for another five years. 

 I’ve disengaged from it altogether. If the trogs vote the sneering tory bastards in, then I hope they get everything they deserve. I’m past bloody caring. 

One or two brainless troglodytes have one or two votes. Depending upon whether one or both of them bothers to vote.  Not enough to give any Political Party a Parliamentary majority.  You and the rest of the towering intellects populating this blog can't even understand basic statistics.  You still think 17.4 million is one or two and just over 15 million is a bigger number.  Just to help you out it isn't!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, linesrg said:

As the 2016 Brexit referendum result would still stand even if the Liberals came to power they don't have the legal or democratic right to simply stop Brexit it would take another referendum surely?

Regards

Richard

It was an advisory referendum and is only being implemented as a tory policy and manifesto pledge. So any other party could disregard it, as can any new government including the tories and the johnson, if they won. Unlikely that they would, but that is the legal position.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Ron Hilditch said:

One or two brainless troglodytes have one or two votes. Depending upon whether one or both of them bothers to vote.  Not enough to give any Political Party a Parliamentary majority.  You and the rest of the towering intellects populating this blog can't even understand basic statistics.  You still think 17.4 million is one or two and just over 15 million is a bigger number.  Just to help you out it isn't!

Here's a number - 68 million. Biggest, isn't it?

Edited by ff1d1l

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ff1d1l said:

It was an advisory referendum and is only being implemented as a tory policy and manifesto pledge. So any other party could disregard it, as can any new government including the tories and the johnson, if they won. Unlikely that they would, but that is the legal position.

Yes I was aware its strict legal position was advisory but given that the MP's all agreed to implement/ honour the referendumresult  I still contend that the nations democratic wishes from 2016 are being overturned in a near undemocratic way?

Regards

Richard

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, linesrg said:

Yes I was aware its strict legal position was advisory but given that the MP's all agreed to implement/ honour the referendumresult  I still contend that the nations democratic wishes from 2016 are being overturned in a near undemocratic way?

Regards

Richard

Well, you're wrong. Democracy is not static. Democracy superceded by democracy is undemocratic?

Edited by ff1d1l

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ff1d1l said:

Here's a number - 68 million. Biggest, isn't it?

Definitely!  Yet not all of them are eligible to vote. Of the ones that were, the majority voted for Brexit.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Ron Hilditch said:

Definitely!  Yet not all of them are eligible to vote. Of the ones that were, the majority voted for Brexit.  

That was an ill informed then. It would be wise, given the enormity of the event, to confirm in a better informed now. 

Of course a lot of people believe that they had all the information then and won’t change their mind but those with a modicum of intelligence will welcome the chance to confirm that in the light of further information their opinion still stands, or if not, have the chance to change their mind.

Of course, it would have been better if the original vote asked if we wanted negotiations for exit to take place with a further referendum on the result of those negotiations. Sadly, politicians aren’t very good at looking past the end of their electoral term!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even that's not true. Of those who voted, yes there was small majority, but of those eligible to vote - what you said Ronny - no, it wasn't a majority.

And this was only conceded as the referendum was advisory - had it not been, a supermajority or a majority of the population would have been required.

Given that it has turned out so well - united the country, strengthened the pound, given a much needed boost to UK industry, given all those positives - just joking there Ronny - do you think that if they could go back, the tories would do the same again? Do you think labour would collude again and vote to enact A50? Do you think the referendum would be run with illegal and badly specified parameters? Do you think control of social media, and of Russian interference in the democratic process, or what passed for it, might have been averted?

You know, time travel, if they had to go back and fix it. I bet the tories wouldn't have gone for a ref, and all the tory lame brains in parliament and from other parties wouldn't have voted for a ref either.

It's been a disaster. Name one way it hasn't. And it's just getting going. Get brexit done my arse, if the WA gets passed this will steam and poison on for years.

Edited by ff1d1l
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ff1d1l said:

Well, you're wrong. Democracy is not static. Democracy superceded by democracy is undemocratic?

So when should the result of a Democratic vote be honoured.  You seem to think only when it's one you voted for and won.  590 MPs out of 650 agreed to honour the result, then most of them dishonoured our Democracy!

Democracy superceded by Democracy is undemocratic?  Is it a Spoonerism?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.