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I ask again how many signed the petition?

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6 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

I need to disagree with your opening agreement... "a significant number of people" did not vote Leave: a majority did.

I will let you and others get vexed about how technically speaking it wasn't a majority of people it was a majority of the people who voted.  Please don't dismiss the 51.9% vs 48.1% result as "a significant number". In the English language as it is used, "most people" voted Leave. There are other fights to fight today, not playing clever games with numbers.

Still not convinced? Imagine the result had been the other way round. If 51.9% of people had voted Remain. Imagine Leavers saying how we should really Leave because people didn't understand the complexity of the decision behind the simple question, saying that "a significant number of people voted Remain" when most voters had.

I'm good with "narrowly won the referendum".

Anything else and you're defending destructive sophistry. And "a majority of the country" particlularly gets my goat.

As I'm getting tired of pointing out.

Are you trying to wear the democrats on here down?

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5 minutes ago, tuga said:

The problem in my view is that such an important issue shouldn't be decided with an over-50% majority but require a 2/3s one. The reason is obvious: the Union is split, England is split, families and friends are split in half...

I feel we're about 3 years too late for debating this point.

If there is any form of second referendum we simply cannot start trying to change the rules vs the first one to bias the result in favour of one way or another.

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Super Wammer
4 minutes ago, tuga said:

The problem in my view is that such an important issue shouldn't be decided with an over-50% majority but require a 2/3s one. The reason is obvious: the Union is split, England is split, families and friends are split in half...

P.S. though to be fair a referendum is merely a public consultation and it's up to Parliament to decide. My sons may ask for all they like but I will only provide if given the facts and weighing the pros and cons I find it suitable.

I agree.

See also this article from late 2017 about the Swiss and their multiple referendums and why the vagueness of our own question was, basically, crap: https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/take-it-from-the-swiss-the-brexit-referendum-wasnt-legitimate

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Just now, MartinC said:

I feel we're about 3 years too late for debating this point.

If there is any form of second referendum we simply cannot start trying to change the rules vs the first one to bias the result in favour of one way or another.

I agree that the rules should not be changed now.

I was merely criticising the original referendum which was an idiocy.

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4 minutes ago, Sgt Pepper said:

I ask again how many signed the petition?

https://www.change.org/p/parliament-support-boris-johnson-s-decision-to-prorogue-parliament

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3 minutes ago, Sgt Pepper said:

I ask again how many signed the petition?

I have no idea but it is utterly irrelevant.

Petitions are always one-sided and so by design are simply incapable of demonstrating any form of balance of opinion.

I think leaving the EU would be a catastrophically stupid idea but I have not signed any online petitions for precisely this reason.

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Super Wammer
1 minute ago, MartinC said:

I feel we're about 3 years too late for debating this point.

If there is any form of second referendum we simply cannot start trying to change the rules vs the first one to bias the result in favour of one way or another.

I have to agree. But ref the article I've just posted, like the Swiss who have referendums all the time, the question would need to be explicit: for example:

The UK Government and EU have been unable to agree a Deal on the terms of the UK's departure. The UK must now decide which of two courses of action to follow. Please select ONE of the following options:

  1. Leave the EU with no deal
  2. Remain in the EU
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7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I feel we're about 3 years too late for debating this point.

If there is any form of second referendum we simply cannot start trying to change the rules vs the first one to bias the result in favour of one way or another.

Agreed.  This is worth a read though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum#Patten's_criticism 

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1 minute ago, TheFlash said:

I have to agree. But ref the article I've just posted, like the Swiss who have referendums all the time, the question would need to be explicit: for example:

The UK Government and EU have been unable to agree a Deal on the terms of the UK's departure. The UK must now decide which of two courses of action to follow. Please select ONE of the following options:

  1. Leave the EU with no deal
  2. Remain in the EU

No deal should be ruled out as there's factual evidence of it's damaging outcome.

1. Leave with a deal

2. Remain in the EU

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Just now, MartinC said:

I would still be in favour of a 3-option referendum but with a transferable vote system: no deal, May's deal (or current variant) or remain.

Referendums cannot have 3 questions. Leavers would rightly argue that their vote would be split between two options...

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8 minutes ago, ff1d1l said:

Which means 64.5 million did not, but hey lets keep going until the majority are defeated because we the intelects know best.

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I still think that it is wrong to believe/accept that a referendum is binding anyway. If an evidence-based analysis goes against the will'o'the'people (as is the case) then Parliament should go against it (as is the case).

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I also think that the result of the Brexit referendum should have been declared void because of the lies and the breaking of rules. But it's too late for that because many who voted leave are going with their guts and they wants their precious...

Edited by tuga
typos

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