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djdon

Adventures in Dutch and Dutch

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Going by the pictures there is good chance I would like the 90s in the flesh. I would reserve judgement until seeing it though. I doubt, however, if I would like the looks better than Martin Logan’s. The 50s look rather nice in the pictures but whilst I like things that look good they also have to be functional, and in the case of a speaker that means sounds excellent - and that’s what I think sounds excellent not what a dealer may think.

Chatted to a couple of B&O dealers this afternoon and it seems the 90s are too expensive to have sitting in the showroom for the number sold. They did point out that my 4x7 metre room would be too small and that the ones they have installed have been in large barn conversions or the like. It will be interesting to hear them and see how they balance pin point imaging with a realistic sense of space.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Camverton said:

How does Dirac affect the impulse response, something they make great play of? 

I'm going to guess what triggered your question here but apologies in advance if I'm on the wrong track...

If you make an in-room speaker measurement in REW and look at the impulse response what you'll see is an initial peak that is the direct signal from the speakers, followed by lots of other peaks caused by boundary reflections. The first peak is the impulse response of the loudspeaker and this is what Dirac Live specifically improves, rather than attempting to reduce the amplitude of the subsequent reflections.

I don't know the details of what Dirac Live does as I've said, but the way that a loudspeaker impulse response is improved is to make the amplitude response flatter and, critically, the phase response closer to being linear. When most people make changes with DSP they just focus on the amplitude response, but one of the things that makes Dirac different is that it also makes changes to the phase response. Dirac isn't the only way to do this though.

Have you made measurements of the impulse response with and without Dirac applied? I'd be very interested to see them in you have :).

Edited by MartinC
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Super Wammer
On 07/08/2019 at 10:25, PuritéAudio said:

You can’t ‘ tune’ a traditional omni directional speaker , they are what they are, the Beolabs use the same technique as the Kii to reduce off axis propagation, the cardioid response of the 8Cs/Kiis just means you hear more direct and less reflected sound.

From the Beolab manual,

The BeoLab 90 is a loudspeaker concept from Bang & Olufsen that gives the customer an unprecedented level of control of its acoustic behaviour and performance. Unlike almost all other conventional loudspeakers, the BeoLab 90 can be altered by the user to behave as if it were completely different loudspeakers for different listening situations.
Imagine that you have a pair of BeoLab 90 loudspeakers, perfectly positioned in your listening room, with a single chair in the correct location, as is shown in Figure 1.1. You sit in this chair to listen to a recording – to hear sparkling high frequencies and a tight, punchy bass that extends to the lowest audible frequency bands along with the accurate and precise placement of the instruments within the space in front of you (better known as “stereo imaging”).

Keith

I have listened to the older B&O "dalek" speakers that produce a microphone from their base, take some measurements and then make adjustments to the sound to suit the room.

Hopefully the BeoLab 90 is far more sophisticated and successful than the daleks.

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Posted (edited)

After my move last week I have been pondering over getting a pair of 8Cs; I have moved home three times in the last 5 years and a pile of boxes isn’t really compatible with my nomadic life…

 

 

I don’t have any 192kHz files but I prefer to upsample everything to the highest possible sample rate that the DAC chip will take (actually I up convert to DSD128 because my DAC has an SDM chip). In my experience upsampling with software produces better results that using the DAC’s internal ASR (this is DAC dependent).

 

 

I wonder if the D&Ds upsample (again) to 192kHz or 384kHz after they’ve DSP’ed the signal?

If I’m not mistaken, up- and down-sampling requires filtering and dithering and is probably not fully transparent.

 

 

Regarding upsampling, most D/A chips will perform better at the highest admissible sample rate and most DACs will upsample 44.1kHz etc. to that rate.

As far as I know, the reasons for upsampling are improved filtering and better reconstruction of the analogue signal.

Edited by tuga

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Super Wammer
On 07/08/2019 at 18:37, PuritéAudio said:

Can you still pick out the ‘Hi-res’ version when you can’t see which is playing?

Keith

Even if your ruler is only 300mm long, things longer than 300mm will continue to exist.

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Super Wammer
On 07/08/2019 at 20:14, Nopiano said:

I thought that reel to reel reappeared to appeal to nostalgia, along with turntables! But regarding masters I’d thought many may now be hard disk based.  

Does anyone else know?

I rather like what I've heard from reel to reel at shows.  But it does seem to be those demoing turntables, valve amplification and / or horn loudspeakers that use them.  There is definitely a debate to be had about nostalgia, appealing to a certain audience and pushing the snobbery factor.

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Super Wammer
20 hours ago, Camverton said:

Utter tosh as you might put it! 

With Dirac and careful positioning you can, with omnis, tune the balance of spaciousness to detail. My limited experience of the D&D was that it’s failing, for me, was that a realistic spacious sound was missing and could not be brought back by toeing out or changing room position. A bit of a one trick pony and if you like their effect it does it very well indeed. My aim is to try and get the best of both worlds. That may not be possible but IME the cardioid speakers that you are trying to flog in these threads don’t get a decent balance of attributes for the music I mostly listen to. Pop, rock and manufactured in the studio, however, did sound good on them which may be a reflection of the studio environment they were “created” in as opposed to acoustic music where the recording team, in decent recordings, have an ear on the sort of location in which such music is performed.

I would like to hear the Beolab 90s and also 50s but your glowing endorsement of the 90s does make me wonder if they are not all they are cracked up to be!

Were you at Kegworth this year?  If so it would be interesting to read your thought on the D&Ds compared to the Gauder Akustiks.

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Super Wammer
9 hours ago, TheFlash said:

It's also partly because these are not just speakers. They're amps and DACs as well.

This is pretty fundamental.  Often they are referred to as speakers and compared to other speakers.  They really can only be compared to other speakers that are built in a similar fashion or with full systems that attempt to address similar issues in a different way - where the electronics are made aware of the speakers in use and the dimensions of the room etc.

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4 hours ago, sunbeamgls said:

Were you at Kegworth this year?  If so it would be interesting to read your thought on the D&Ds compared to the Gauder Akustiks.

No didn’t manage to get there. I must confess I have never heard of the Gauder Akustiks. Is the sound similar to the D&D?

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Super Wammer
20 hours ago, Camverton said:

No didn’t manage to get there. I must confess I have never heard of the Gauder Akustiks. Is the sound similar to the D&D?

Yes and no.  Perhaps others who were there might comment?  I'll come back to why I ask the question later Camverton, after any comments.

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i have now EQ'd my speakers and it has made a huge difference. The sound now is simply stunning.

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Super Dealer

That’s great, but the dealer should have really helped you with this.

Keith

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Super Dealer

This might be of interest to 8C owners,

https://www.vortexbox.co.uk/index.aspx?pageid=317972

Keith

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