Ian

Warm Summer evenings and valve amps !

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Super Wammer
57 minutes ago, Muckplaster said:

In my younger days I would have used that to power a MW pirate radio rig. :O)

As I recall the original use for 845 was exactly that Medium Wave radio transmission

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On 04/07/2019 at 19:09, Ian said:

4 x EL34 here and some transformers. In a 12 x 12 foot room. What a bloody stupid idea. Thank the lord for lager ;-).

Please discuss !

How can you have such good taste in amps and such bad taste in beer - get real ale down ya :) 

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On 04/07/2019 at 19:09, Ian said:

4 x EL34 here and some transformers. In a 12 x 12 foot room. What a bloody stupid idea. Thank the lord for lager ;-).

Please discuss !

Got a window and a fan don’t ya?

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43 minutes ago, Tune said:

Actually, ignoring the tubes for a second, it's bloody stupid putting a hifi system in a 12'x12' room.

Not if it's the only/best room available it isn't!

Out of interest though, is it the square shape you're objection too, or the size?

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Posted (edited)

Square room - to be fair a combination of the two would be a more accurate reply. You might as well buy a high end headphone rig and a Bose.

Edited by Tune

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Single tube OTL with pair of whacking great 13E1s running at 75W plate dissipation each plus 33W each of heater power in a 12x13’ room makes it cosy in summer. :cool:

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Moderator

You can barbecue your lamb chops while you listen :D

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1 hour ago, Tune said:

Square room - to be fair a combination of the two would be a more accurate reply. You might as well buy a high end headphone rig and a Bose.

With respect, I think that is utter nonsense :).

I hate headphone listening and have used hifi equipment in a range of rooms a damn site less suitable than a 12' square room and been happy that I did. Suggesting hifi use should be restricted to some set of supposedly ideal conditions will just unnecessarily put even more people off having decent sound systems at home.

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I couldn't listen through double axial modes - or I could but I would either have to buy EQ or not bother with expensive audio. Out of interest, what is a "damn site less suitable than a 12' square room"?

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1 hour ago, Tune said:

I couldn't listen through double axial modes - or I could but I would either have to buy EQ or not bother with expensive audio. Out of interest, what is a "damn site less suitable than a 12' square room"?

I can't remember the dimensions now but I'd say the worst was a room was the lounge I had in a flat inside a converted old brewery. I listened across the narrow width of a room where the fundamental axial mode was then at a problematically high frequency. I ended up buying speakers with relatively limited bass extension as a result but it was very definitely a compromise. Generally speaking I'd take a larger room over a smaller room as then the fundamental modes are at lower frequencies where the they are less problematic, and also because it gives far more scope to be able to move things around to optimise performance. 

I know you don't like bass EQ but as you point out this is obviously one way to manage issues in a square room. Another is the diagonal arrangement that @rabski uses in a room that IIRC is also fairly square.

Wall construction is also a factor in how significant modes are. My own lounge has has solid walls on all four sides, which I believe is a factor in why I have such a stonking primary mode at 36 Hz (in a non-square room).

Whatever the limitations of any of these rooms though, the sound from a decent hifi is still going to totally outclass some little mini-system. Or headphones.

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Just my personal opinion Martin. You are going to have really intrusive modes between 80 and 100 hz and also between 130 and 150hz. Really intrusive and because of the small size of the room, no speaker worth its salt is going to fit naturally. 

You are right it will be dependent on room build as well but stud walls and suspended flooring just means you need to have the house to yourself or very understanding neighbours. And you are also right in that I am no fan of EQ. EQ cannot replace good room acoustics IME, but in this case, it will be the only option. A square room is the worst possible option with the exception of a cube (we don't know the height). A tangential setup would minimise the issues but is usually impractical in rooms with such small dimensions.

Anyway, just my opinion. I would not be blowing money on expensive sources or amplifiers until I could find a speaker that could work and at the same time impress with my music of choice.

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2 minutes ago, Tune said:

Just my personal opinion Martin. You are going to have really intrusive modes between 80 and 100 hz and also between 130 and 150hz. Really intrusive and because of the small size of the room, no speaker worth its salt is going to fit naturally. 

Ah. I see partly where we're coming at this differently is that to me a 12' square room is a decent size as it's bigger than many I've had :).

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Posted (edited)

There is nothing wrong with a 12x12 room at all; it’s the speakers you choose to put in there that are the problem. Sealed box wall proximity speakers work perfectly well. The slow LF roll off and need for boundary reinforcement, uses the room rather than fighting with it. 

Ported speakers are complete crap in a small, square room, but transmission lines,  will work very well. How do I know this? Easy, I’ve lived in a 12x12 room since 1981 and have used most types of speaker in it. The room  has a suspended wooden floor over a 7ft deep cellar and the ceiling is 9ft high.

I currently use a pair of large floor standing sealed box speakers with a 12” single full range driver in each one. The sound is wonderful, and beautifully even at the bottom end. 

Edited by Lord Rockingham

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