malcesine

EAR 834T Hybrid ?

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Any thoughts on E.A.R. 834T hybrid integrated ?

Thinking of trying one out on my martin logan panels (bi-amped - 834T would be feeding panel only)
As a fan of tubes, hoping it might be best of both worlds on a fairly demanding low impedance load

There is a review that gave a glowing review paired with Maggies ESL's so perhaps migh expect same on ML panel??

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/1206/ear_yoshino_834t.htm

Thoughts very welcome....

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1 hour ago, malcesine said:

E.A.R. 834T hybrid

Note that it is a hybrid being a mosfet amp with transformer output (no valves).. that aside, EAR products to my ears always sound fabulous. 

Do not expect the old fashioned view of how tube amps  sound with this beasty (mind you the same can be said of the 509 valve beasties).  The use of output transformers means if a mosfet ever fails (touch wood the mosfets in my amp are now 40 years old and going strong) that no DC will ever be passed through to fry your loudspeakers. 

To me this is an amplifier for life (if my old Hafler's died and I could not replace them it would be one of the amps on my shortlist, although I guess i would just feed my Audio Research preamp into it and just use it as a straight power amp, as Tim does not make a plain power amp version).

Not heard it through electrostatics but in all honesty I cannot see that its performance would be anything less than superb.  You need to home demo one to see what your ears think.

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Thanks uzzy

I am a fan of valve amps - currently using CJ pre + EL84 based Kora power amp which is really good on the ML panels - but as always I'm looking the next improvement and I have heard so much good things about EAR amps. Amp for life would definitely be good!

On the mosfet + xformer output...might that take the 834T generally closer to a class D presentation? (I had a nice Lyngdorf in the past and liked it but the Kora trumped it in the end)

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57 minutes ago, uzzy said:

(no valves).

Apparently it has some valves in. Not familiar with it my self through.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, dave said:

Apparently it has some valves in. Not familiar with it my self through.

Nope The 834T is said to draw upon the design bases of both the all-tube model 834 and the M100 transistor monoblocks. It offers 100 wpc of transformer-coupled MOSFET power together with six line-level inputs and one tape output. Both 4 and 8-Ohm output impedance taps are provided on the rear.  Not a tube in sight lol 

malcesine On the mosfet + xformer output...might that take the 834T generally closer to a class D presentation? (I had a nice Lyngdorf in the past and liked it but the Kora trumped it in the end).

No - this amp is a class AB amp I think you will find.  Mind you what is class D representation?  An amp either sounds good or it doesn't and the class D amps just like other amps vary.  What Tim has done is to try and provide the best of everything methinks (that is what he always tries to do in my opinion).  

Edited by uzzy

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14 minutes ago, malcesine said:

On the mosfet + xformer output...might that take the 834T generally closer to a class D presentation?

Unlikely I would suspect. Without a circuit to analyse one would have to rely on reviews. That said dp does not always use feedback around the output transformer, so it could sound a bit like a 509, but that is a guess.

😀

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Posted (edited)

https://www.jordanacoustics.co.uk/products/amplifiers/834t

As I said, am not familiar with this one... I am with its predecessors tho.

Edit:

This link thinks it is all solid state......

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/1206/ear_yoshino_834t.htm

Edited by dave

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Posted (edited)

According to blurb....

Input stages use both valves and transistors, drawing on the unique strengths of each to make this one of the most sophisticated-sounding amps’

Any warmers have experience or opinions on the amp being a) an amp worth splurging on and b) as a good pairing with my ML panels?

thanks

Edited by malcesine

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No direct experience, but as has been stated many times, valve amps and solid state amps do not have a 'sound' per se. The circuit does, and this is affected by the design and the choice of the components (and their quality). In this application, TdP appears to have used a 'hybrid' in terms of a transformer coupled output stage but driven my MOSFETs rather than valves. In actual fact, most FETs behave more like valves than most solid state devices in a number of ways, but not all. This is not class D at all. It still uses the FETs as linear devices. No idea whether there are valves in the pre-amp or driver stages, nor does it really matter.

As for the question of suitability, I can't see any reason why not. With that circuit topology, I can't imagine anything other than an overly high impedance load causing it any grief.

I know some of TdPs work and I have a lot of admiration in particular for his power amplfiers designs. If it's in your ballpark price-wise, I'd definitely audition it.

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It looks cool too!:)

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Incidentally, from the review it does seem to be all solid state: "Originally intended as a tube/MOS FET hybrid, with a triode input stage, the 834T was put into production as all solid state. In the final analysis, the decision was made to configure the input stage using a pair of FETs on a plug-in board that is said to have the same characteristics as a twin triode tube but with the obvious savings of warm-up time and ease in matching".

As well as the Maggies, the Enjoy the Music review also mentions it working well with ML Vistas.

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13 hours ago, rabski said:

TdP appears to have used a 'hybrid' in terms of a transformer coupled output stage but driven my MOSFETs

that is what I said lol .. definitely not a valve in sight

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Hi M,

I replied to your club post, but will repeat it here; although it reflects much of what is written above:

Hi M,

Here are a few thoughts, but whether they are helpful is another matter!

You say you are a fan of valves, BUT that can mean many different things depending on the valves used and their configuration. EAR are not in any way warm or mellifluous. T de P is on record as saying he can get the sound he aims for using valves or SS. Does this mean that valves add nothing to his amps? I think not.

I currently listen to music using either my Oppo 105D, with its inbuilt digital pre-amp OR via my EAR868pl. The Oppo is excellent and stonking VFM .....but, the EAR is better. It is more detailed and adds texture, by which I mean that voices and instruments sound more realistic and have subtle inflections and resonances that add to their verisimilitude.

As to whether the 834 will work well with the ML and in your room, their is only one way to know. Can you borrow it?

Be interested in your thoughts once you have had a go!

Good luck.

M

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On 08/06/2019 at 14:17, malcesine said:

Any thoughts on E.A.R. 834T hybrid integrated ?

Thinking of trying one out on my martin logan panels (bi-amped - 834T would be feeding panel only)
As a fan of tubes, hoping it might be best of both worlds on a fairly demanding low impedance load

There is a review that gave a glowing review paired with Maggies ESL's so perhaps migh expect same on ML panel??

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/1206/ear_yoshino_834t.htm

Thoughts very welcome....

Given that anything that matters sonically about an amp can be objectively measured at fairly low cost I wouldn’t want to spend that much on an amp if I didn’t have objective measurements. Notwithstanding the amps impressive looks (beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I really like the look of ears stuff), without objective measurements it might not be any better than a much cheaper amp.  I couldn’t find measurements for any of EAR Yoshino’s products on their site, or anywhere else. Of this doesn’t mean they can’t be found. I was looking at one of the 834ts on eBay and read the referenced review. Although the reviewer obviously liked the amp there isn’t any really information in the review that can’t be found on the ear website. BTW I used to own an ear 834p and liked it a lot. I also love my mosfet based incatech claymore so have no axe to grind there either. Of course, neither of these amps are likely to come close to the measured performance of any competently designed modern ss amp-which is why denon, Yamaha et al are happy to publish measurements and most boutique manufacturers aren’t😉

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Phorize said:

Given that anything that matters sonically about an amp can be objectively measured at fairly low cost I wouldn’t want to spend that much on an amp if I didn’t have objective measurements. Notwithstanding the amps impressive looks (beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I really like the look of ears stuff), without objective measurements it might not be any better than a much cheaper amp.  I couldn’t find measurements for any of EAR Yoshino’s products on their site, or anywhere else. Of this doesn’t mean they can’t be found. I was looking at one of the 834ts on eBay and read the referenced review. Although the reviewer obviously liked the amp there isn’t any really information in the review that can’t be found on the ear website. BTW I used to own an ear 834p and liked it a lot. I also love my mosfet based incatech claymore so have no axe to grind there either. Of course, neither of these amps are likely to come close to the measured performance of any competently designed modern ss amp-which is why denon, Yamaha et al are happy to publish measurements and most boutique manufacturers aren’t😉

I understand where you are coming from - although it has to be said I do not think there has been an EAR product that measured badly and yet to hear one that actually does not sound good.  Tim has been designing and building amps for many years (he designed the famed Lux valve amps of the 70s and a not inconsiderable number of other manufacturers amps, MF and Quad spring to mind).  So whilst I respect your view about measurements there is also the aspect of a the reputation of a world noted designer and builder of amps.  I am sure if you contacted EAR they would provide the specifications (easily had for the 834 valve amp - and this being transistor is extremely unlikely to be worse).  

Another aspect of note is the reliability and longevity of a product and again EAR comes up trumps - my mate is using a pair of 509s that are circa 45 years old now.  

On the point of measurements from Denon and Yamaha being better than the Inca Tech and other older designs  - I have yet to hear any Denon or Yamaha Amp that comes anywhere close in aural performance to any EAR product (and probably Inca Tech too).  As to stating that the measurements of older amps would not come anywhere close - I am not so sure this is true as my Hafler DH200 from the 1970s has excellent measurements in many cases better than many modern amps.  Just in case you are interested here is a review by Ken Rockwell some years back using a used DH200 some years old  https://kenrockwell.com/audio/hafler/dh-200.htm  .. I should add I never realised how well it measured until some time after I bought mine - I bought it because it sounded great and had no problem driving my Gale GS401s whose load drops under 4 ohms which upset a lot of amps in the day (and probably still many now).

I do appreciate the value of measurements but it would never preclude me auditioning and buying an amp if my ears told me they cut the mustard provided it came from a reputable manufacturer and A class designer with a proven track record.  That is an important measurement for me in itself.

Edited by uzzy

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