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Graphic Equaliser Question

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3 hours ago, MF 1000 said:

I found this in the manual for a Behringer GE, quite interesting for those of us using active xovers with the ability to boost/reduce frequencies

(...)

Thought this would be useful when tweaking

It would be if you were a producer/engineer working on the fabrication of a multi-track song, but a hi-fi system's goal is to reproduce a recording not to refurbish it. :mrgreen:

Studio productions are hardly ever the result of a take consisting of a group of musicians playing together simultaneously in the same room. They are mostly collages of small recordings of individual instruments or vocals mixed together into a single composite fabrication where various effects and localised EQ are added for artistic purposes, a bit like the image below:

jIJFzls.jpg

But we are reproducing a finished composite song and when we apply EQ we are not dealing with each individual track/instrument but affecting the global picture.

Do give it a try but it won't work as it sounds like you think it will.

.

As an example take look at these tutorials by Shure on how to record and EQ a drum kit.

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Super Wammer

Only ever had a NAD 7020 so not sure if the same things apply but that had two power amp inputs one marked Lab In . Now if this is the case on your amp then if you route the pre out to the equaliser and the the equaliser out to the Power Amp in then anything you choose on the pre wil go to the Eq machine so it will route and input through the EQ unit .

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7 hours ago, MF 1000 said:
I found this in the manual for a Behringer GE, quite interesting for those of us using active xovers with the ability to boost/reduce frequencies
 
Effects of frequency on voices
 
40 to 125 Hz
Sense of power in some outstanding bass singers.
 
160 to 250 Hz                     
Voice fundamentals
 
315 to 500 Hz
Important for voice quality.

630 to 1 Khz

Important for voice naturalness. Too much boost In the 315 to 1 kHz range produces a telephone-like quality naturalness.  

1.25k to 4k

Voice fricatives-accentuation of vocals. Important for speech intelligibility. Too much boost between 2 and 4 kHz can mask certain speech sounds e.g. "m", "b", and "v" can become indistinguishable. Too much boost anywhere between 1 and 4 kHz can produce "listening fatigue". Vocals can be highlighted by slightly boosting the vocal at 3 kHz and at the same time slightly dipping the instruments at the same frequency.

 
5k to 8 KHz
Accentuation of voice. The range from 1.25 to 8 kHz governs the clarity of voices.
 
10-16 KHz
Too much boost causes sibilance.
 
Effects of frequencies on music
 
31-63Hz
Fundamentals of bass drum, tuba, double bass and organ. These frequencies give music a sense of power. If over-emphasised they make the music "muddy". The 50 or 60 Hz band is also used to reject AC mains hum.
 
80-125Hz
Fundamentals of lower tympani. Too much boost produces
excessive "boom". 100 or 125 Hz are also used for hum rejection
 
160-250 Hz
Drum and lower bass. Too much boost produces
excessive "boom". Also useful for 3rd harmonic mains hum rejection 
 
315-500 Hz
Fundamentals of strings and percussion
 
630-1KHz
Fundamentals and harmonics of strings, keyboards and percussion. Boosting the 600 to 1 kHz range can make instruments sound horn-like.
 
1.25-4KHz
Drums, guitar, accentuation of vocals, strings and bass. Too much boost in the 1 to 2 kHz range can make Instruments  sound tinny. Too much boost anywhere between 1 to 4 kHz can produce "listening fatigue".
 
5-8KHz
Accentuation of percussion, cymbals and snare drum. Reduction at 5 kHz makes overall sound more distant and transparent. Reduction of tape hiss and system noise. The 1.25 to 8 kHz governs clarity and definition.
 
10-16KHz
Cymbals and overall brightness. Too much boost causes sibilance. Reduction of tape hiss and system noise.
 
 
Thought this would be useful when tweaking 
 
 

That is really helpful and corroborates my experience; my hearing loss is rising to highs and lows, this means with no eq I am hearing music with boosted 1 - 4kHz (assuming a flatish recording), which in turn leads to listening fatigue and can over empahsise say shrillness in sax and trumpet or make a snare sound over forward and harsh. Of course, tweaking the eq will have other detrimental effects, but it's really a question of what sounds better to my imperfect ears (and likely a room with all sorts of anomalies).

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4 hours ago, tuga said:

It would be if you were a producer/engineer working on the fabrication of a multi-track song, but a hi-fi system's goal is to reproduce a recording not to refurbish it. :mrgreen:

Studio productions are hardly ever the result of a take consisting of a group of musicians playing together simultaneously in the same room. They are mostly collages of small recordings of individual instruments or vocals mixed together into a single composite fabrication where various effects and localised EQ are added for artistic purposes, a bit like the image below:

jIJFzls.jpg

But we are reproducing a finished composite song and when we apply EQ we are not dealing with each individual track/instrument but affecting the global picture.

Do give it a try but it won't work as it sounds like you think it will.

.

As an example take look at these tutorials by Shure on how to record and EQ a drum kit.

True, but you negate the facts that my ears due to heariing loss boost the 1kHz to 4kHz region and my room will no doubt boost various frequencies. That means I am not listening to what the recording engineer intended/produced anyway. Once home the dish is completely different. I appreciate there may well be other issues involved, but going by ear the intention would be to lose the boost in the frequencies where my hearing is good, add a bit of bass which I like, whilst maintaining a satisfactory overall sound. As said originally, I always eq headphones - nearly always to my satisfaction. Seeking a point where the gains outweigh the losses.

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Super Wammer

I have a friend who has changing hearing conditions and currently 2-2.5KHz frequencies can cause him 'issues' ....he just bought a new pair of Tannoys and was considering moving them on as they irritated his ears (braces himself for Tannoy jokes) until I demonstrated to him a resistor drop on the tweeters took away his issue.  So we are now looking for a graphic eq to refine this and enable his future enjoyment of his music and relatively low key system.

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Posted (edited)

The irony is that I have virtually no hearing in my left ear. 

I bought a graphic equiliser from here some time ago but needed another. Won one off ebay then my neighbour gave me his (gone wireless). 

So I will have potentially have a Technics or Rotel available. However, both need testing especially the Rotel as it's vintage. 

The equaliser I have works for my deficiency but I can still detect some processing. No. Ad thing as my ears are getting really bad:(

Edited by AnilS

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Super Wammer
Posted (edited)

I found a cheap Behringer digital graphic equaliser (DSP8024) on eBay (a steal at £43) to have a play with.  I know I can, and do, use the eq on my dcx crossover but the idea of being able to flatten my response curve even more and attack a couple of room nodes prior to the xovers appeals to the tinkering half of my brain.  

Watch this space as they say ......

Edited by MF 1000
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1 hour ago, MF 1000 said:

I found a cheap Behringer digital graphic equaliser (DSP8034) on eBay (a steal at £43) to have a play with.  I know I can, and do, use the eq on my dcx crossover but the idea of being able to flatten my response curve even more and attack a couple of room nodes prior to the xovers appeals to the tinkering half of my brain.  

Watch this space as they say ......

Show us it in the system when you get it Keith:^

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Super Wammer

IMG_0093.thumb.JPG.20b78cc7f62510a30b14bf72b1b6485d.JPG

stock pic of the graphic eq bargain 😀

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That Behringer looks awful nice... meanwhile, I took the plunge on a flight of impulse, and a little research, and bough a Schiit Loki. Had a look at the frequency graphs and it struck me that the +/- 6db at 2kHz adjuster would do the job of lowering those upper mids. And it works wonderfully, not perfect but allows me to push the bass a bit, drop the mids and add a little at the top. Kind of mirrors my hearing range i.e. lift where hearing is out and drop where hearing is good. It also allows me to add a preference for added bass and adjust for those recordings where the engineer thinks exaggerated detail counts more than the whole, of which there are many, and mixes with far too much mid-range. No perceivable sound degradation and with only four dials, with broad sweeps, it avoids the endless tinkering involved in a eq with many more frequency adjusters. Finding it easy and swift to tweak relevant frequencies on the fly as I listen. Couldn't get NAD service to add a power in so have to run the eq before the pre-amp in the integrated. Got a Schiit SYS on the way to use to switch the feed to the Loki between turntable and DAC, that may be overkill I suspect a cheap switch box would be just as effective, but audio nervosa is always going to play on my mind if I went with the cheap switching box. 

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On 09/06/2019 at 09:10, bencat said:

Only ever had a NAD 7020 so not sure if the same things apply but that had two power amp inputs one marked Lab In . Now if this is the case on your amp then if you route the pre out to the equaliser and the the equaliser out to the Power Amp in then anything you choose on the pre wil go to the Eq machine so it will route and input through the EQ unit .

Aye, I'm around that. However, there's no power amp in, only a pre-amp out. This is to allow connection to a second power amp. Nor is there a tape loop. In my scenario, unless I change amps, eq must go before amplification. 

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