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17 hours ago, Turk 182 said:

i listen to mostly electronic music and any system with remotely harsh treble gives me ear ache very quickly !

I would therefore suggest you are unlikely to ever truly be satisfied without a sub (or subs) as part of your long term plan (or very large speakers). Your best bet would really be to try to audition combined sub/sat systems, since small speakers which on their own you might conclude are too bright could actually work very well in combination with a sub.

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Posted (edited)
On 02/06/2019 at 09:21, Turk 182 said:

hi lindsayt

the avi dm12's contain a dac, pre amp, mono blocks, tone controls plus a remote control - everything in a box just add a source component.

they caught my attention as i want to reduce the amount of boxes and cables.

having said that i have also considered a "traditional" cd, amp, speaker and cables set up with the yamaha cd-2100 / a-s2100 duo catching my eye.

i just presumed with my budget that the active speaker option would be the best sound per pound buy - an audition of course will be the judge of this !

There's Lindsayt's law of hi-fi:

"Whatever you buy, you could have gotten something elsewhere for less money that sounds better."

This reaches its' limits when you are paid to remove World Class equipment. For example people doing radio station / cinema / recording studio refurbs.

If you want the best sound per pound, do not buy new off a dealer. Buy used or DIY.

In my experience, getting the best sound per pound involves compromises in looks, size, age, risk or effort that the vast majority of people are not willing to accept.

The right system for you depends where you sit on the compromise spectrum.

At Owston on Saturday, Chris played us a tiny pair of speakers plus a sub combination. My highly provisional rating of his system was that it would be competitive with AVI DM10's. To the point where I'd need to get them in the same room, playing the same music at the same volume to say which I prefered. Chris paid £20 for his speakers and £40 for the sub.

There's a lot to be said for starting off with a £60 speaker combination and taking it from there. As £60 might be your final destination.

Edited by lindsayt

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21 minutes ago, lindsayt said:

There's Lindsayt's law of hi-fi:

"Whatever you buy, you could have gotten something elsewhere for less money that sounds better."

This reaches its' limits when you are paid to remove World Class equipment. For example people doing radio station / cinema / recording studio refurbs.

If you want the best sound per pound, do not buy new off a dealer. Buy used or DIY.

In my experience, getting the best sound per pound involves compromises in looks, size, age, risk or effort that the vast majority of people are not willing to accept.

The right system for you depends where you sit on the compromise spectrum.

At Owston on Saturday, Chris played us a tiny pair of speakers plus a sub combination. My highly provisional rating of his system was that it would be competitive with AVI DM10's. To the point where I'd need to get them in the same room, playing the same music at the same volume to say which I prefered. Chris paid £20 for his speakers and £40 for the sub.

There's a lot to be said for starting off with a £60 speaker combination and taking it from there. As £60 might be your final destination.

hi again and thanks for the further reply and advice all appreciated.

nothing is set in stone yet as regards to what i audition and eventually buy hence my various questions.

however how something looks does actually matter to me so its not just a sound per pound consideration.

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I auditioned the AVI DM10 some years ago at a private house (when AVI had no dealers and price was £1,500).  They seem to do everything right, bass, midrange and nice detailed treble.  I even tested them for depth by playing March to the Scaffold by Berlioz.  If there is no depth the piece of music can be very boring, however these active speakers showed depth with this music making it a tense and dramatic experience.  However there was one drawback for me, everything sounded so 'hard'.  I mentioned this on the 'AVI forum' back then, and Ashley James (director of AVI) responded, he felt the reason maybe the sound was appearing to come over as hard was because the instruments were coming over in pin point fashion without the usual distortion.  His aim was that the active speakers presented the music as it would be heard on headphones without distortion.  I  felt I partly understood what he meant as music via headphones for me has definite benefits  but I don't think I could of lived with that hard presentation of music from the speakers.

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I think AVI since they changed owner are expensive now. I would look out for some used ones, they don't come up very often, there are some ex-display DM10s for around £1,500. Or 9s come up for around £700 sometimes. Depending on what sort of music you play and your room, you may want to add a sub. If I started again I would be buying used gear. 

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1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

I auditioned the AVI DM10 some years ago at a private house (when AVI had no dealers and price was £1,500).  They seem to do everything right, bass, midrange and nice detailed treble.  I even tested them for depth by playing March to the Scaffold by Berlioz.  If there is no depth the piece of music can be very boring, however these active speakers showed depth with this music making it a tense and dramatic experience.  However there was one drawback for me, everything sounded so 'hard'.  I mentioned this on the 'AVI forum' back then, and Ashley James (director of AVI) responded, he felt the reason maybe the sound was appearing to come over as hard was because the instruments were coming over in pin point fashion without the usual distortion.  His aim was that the active speakers presented the music as it would be heard on headphones without distortion.  I  felt I partly understood what he meant as music via headphones for me has definite benefits  but I don't think I could of lived with that hard presentation of music from the speakers.

hi stargazer and thanks for the detailed reply - fully appreciated.

this pinpoint sound seems to be what i'm after as i mainly listen to electronic music and i like the "super focused" distortion free sound.

i also like the idea of plugging a cd player / transport direct to these speakers and hearing as accurate reproduction of this signal as possible so i intend to audition the dm12's.

once again thanks for your thoughts.

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59 minutes ago, BeeRay said:

I think AVI since they changed owner are expensive now. I would look out for some used ones, they don't come up very often, there are some ex-display DM10s for around £1,500. Or 9s come up for around £700 sometimes. Depending on what sort of music you play and your room, you may want to add a sub. If I started again I would be buying used gear. 

hi beeray and thanks for your thoughts too.

i will audition the dm12's as everything i am reading regarding the avi products seems to suite my ideal listening experience.

the one stumbling block is a home demo however i do prefer to buy brand new hence cost does not really bother me to much.

(the alternative yamaha cd, amp, speaker choice i was considering is well over the £3000 for the dm12's !). 

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Posted (edited)
On 01/06/2019 at 10:16, AlmaAtaKZ said:

The 10s and 5s I can recommend.

Did not hear the 12s but they should be similar to the 10s.

dm10s are similar to adm9s while dm12s are comparable/ better than adm40s.. 

9s and 10s are 7lt behind midbass while 12s are 12lt ( vs 40s 14lt) got best tweeter of any avi speaker and useful tone controls

12s amps are same as 10s or latest 9s

Edited by darius

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