Bodgit

Dedicated HiFi circuit design

Recommended Posts

I'm going to be rewiring my house from top to bottom, its a 3 bed semi with extension to come so will of course have a dedicated mains circuit for the hifi. Am thinking of using 4mm T&E radial on a 32A MCB to 6 double unswitched sockets (MK Logic brand). Anyone got any suggestions for other ideas? There's only so many ways to wire a circuit, and using 4mm just allows extra cross sectional area (rather than 2.5mm).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wiring a dedicated ring with six sockets on it using 2.5mm T&E would be far better and keep within the regs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would a 2.5mm ring be "far better" than a 4mm radial?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
Posted (edited)

Although it’s easy to poke fun at some of his stuff, I think Russ Andrews has tried most mains improvements, and his recent guide is free. 

It reflects the latest regulations too. The pdf is here...

https://www.russandrews.com/mains-installation/ 

In the 1990s I had a dedicated spur fitted with some then fashionable unswitched sockets. It was certainly better than the regular mains at that property.  I’ve not had the time or inclination since, but live in a more rural location now. I think that makes a difference.  

Edited by Nopiano

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Bodgit said:

Why would a 2.5mm ring be "far better" than a 4mm radial?

5 minutes ago, Bodgit said:

Why would a 2.5mm ring be "far better" than a 4mm radial?

Because it keeps you compliant with the regs. You can add extra sockets if needed. Don't forget if you are wiring a whole house which includes the kitchen and bathroom you will need the installation tested and signed off by an approved electrician so you will have to stay within the regs. Not to get it tested would be simply foolish. 

I am assuming you do realise a ring circuit using 2.5mm has a higher current carrying capacity than a radial 4mn? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A 4mm radial on a 32A MCB is fully compliant with regs.  I spoke with my Spark and he is fine with the design - I'm essentially working for him and its him that'll sign everything off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Nopiano said:

Although it’s easy to poke fun at some of his stuff, I think Russ Andrews has tried most mains improvements, and his recent guide is free. 

It reflects the latest regulations too. The pdf is here...

https://www.russandrews.com/mains-installation/ 

In the 1990s I had a dedicated spur fitted with some then fashionable unswitched sockets. It was certainly better than the regular mains at that property.  I’ve not had the time or inclination since, but live in a more rural location now. I think that makes a difference.  

Thanks for that. There's some common sense in there as well as some "foo".

I hadn't thought of using 4mm in a ring, which will double the cross sectional area, will consider that. Not sure what's so special about their consumer unit, except the price! The supersocket looks like an MK unswitched double socket, treated with DeoxIT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
Posted (edited)

Electrical regs certainly allow radial circuits. In fact, for some things like electric showers they are required. Whether in this case there would be any benefit is a different matter. The primary reason for using a radial rather than a ring is simply convenience and economy. It will probably be well within the limits, but it should be noted that IEE regs specify a maxiumum floor area that can be supplied by a radial with multiple outlets. You could of course run a ring using 4mm (AFAIK it is within regs) but why would you? You'd need industrial levels of current draw to make it necessary. A 2.5mm ring should be safe for, I think,  up to 32 amps.

I'm aware of people making the usual 'night and day' comments about a dedicated radial for hifi use, but the jury remains out for me. Basically, any competently installed supply is inherently and obviously all connected together. The resistance between any point in the circuit and the incoming supply ought to be vanishingly small, or there is a problem. If you use a separate consumer unit, the only difference between that and taking a radial/ring from one outlet in the overall CU is that there is an additional main breaker. Again, however, this should not introduce any element of 'filtering' into the system.

My own suspicion is that most, of not all, of the benefits claimed from the fitment of a dedicated radial are down to the simple fact of having newly made, clean and corrosion-free connections throughout. Cutting off the mains supply (obviously) and then going through the house, cleaning and re-tightening socket connections would, I suspect, produce the same result. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has at some time or another replaced a mains socket and discovered the incoming connections are slightly loose.

Edited by rabski
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nopiano said:

Although it’s easy to poke fun at some of his stuff, I think Russ Andrews has tried most mains improvements, and his recent guide is free. 

It reflects the latest regulations too. The pdf is here...

https://www.russandrews.com/mains-installation/ 

In the 1990s I had a dedicated spur fitted with some then fashionable unswitched sockets. It was certainly better than the regular mains at that property.  I’ve not had the time or inclination since, but live in a more rural location now. I think that makes a difference.  

+1

russ andrews has lots of info but i think his ring main cable may be against the law (not sure ?)

you could also try contacting mcru - they sell some high quality but high cost mains cables alternatives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bodgit said:

I'm going to be rewiring my house from top to bottom, its a 3 bed semi with extension to come so will of course have a dedicated mains circuit for the hifi. Am thinking of using 4mm T&E radial on a 32A MCB to 6 double unswitched sockets (MK Logic brand). Anyone got any suggestions for other ideas? There's only so many ways to wire a circuit, and using 4mm just allows extra cross sectional area (rather than 2.5mm).

hi bodgit

here is an example of an alternative mains cable to use...if you have deep pockets !

https://mcru.co.uk/product/furutech-dps-4-1-mains-power-cable/?v=79cba1185463

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Turk 182 said:

hi bodgit

here is an example of an alternative mains cable to use...if you have deep pockets !

https://mcru.co.uk/product/furutech-dps-4-1-mains-power-cable/?v=79cba1185463

I wouldn't dream of using that tardy nonsense with my high end equipment. Bah its cheap at twice the price! O.o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Bodgit said:

I wouldn't dream of using that tardy nonsense with my high end equipment. Bah its cheap at twice the price! O.o

ha ha

imagine if you needed to order 30 metres !

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
Posted (edited)

To revert to the point, which is install cable rather than equipment cable, the RA site states its installation cable needs to be double insulated to comply with regs and this can be done. However, at a price that is not stated. Neither is the method of double insulation.

My issue with the RA install cable is not the price, but that the blub states 'woven'. It is not clear what this means, but I assume it is a sort of plaited design. The idea behind this is that weaving mains cables has some benefits, but to my eyes, it could also have undesirable effects, such as increasing inductance. There are many good reasons why twisted/woven cables are a bad idea if higher currents are involved and there are many reasons why 'standard' mains cables for installation purposes are accordingly of an inline construction.

Edited by rabski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't a clue but had to say - if you pay this much attention to it to get it right, you need to change your name in here to "given up bodging it" 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When i built my extension, i knew where i wanted the hifi to be, so from a dedicated way, ran 6mm T&E supply direct to that socket. I also ran some thick earth wire to a long piece of copper sunk into the ground. Top-tip =use the deepest socket boxes you can get to make it easier to fit everything in.

Does it work, yes, does it make a difference..maybe, it certainly sounds good. This is a whole can of worms that you are opening, but if you have ever heard a power cable make a difference (i have), it doesn't seem a far step, and it certainly can't 'hurt' (*caveat - if in doubt consult a certified professional). I have noticed that In my system, power conditioners don't make a noticeable difference.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.