Turk 182

msb technologies dream system...

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, The Chronicals said:

Thats not what was said. Sorry if English is not your first language, I'll try to explain for you.

The AUP works on objectifying personally, this statement does not.

If I had said, "Boon, you are a monumental bellend", then your argument would definitely be valid, no matter how true it may or may not be.

You also missed the post where I addressed my previous behaviour and that after reading the AUP, improvements had been made.

You last couple of posts could be classed as 'goading' and 'creating a cyclic argument' which again, although not directly against the AUP, falls under the internet concept of 'trolling', which is often frowned upon in forums I believe.

I do love you usage of the edit button, nothing like throwing a few more insults after your original post!

If it interests you English is my first language so I’m well aware of the word obfuscation. 

Edited by Blackmetalboon

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1 minute ago, Blackmetalboon said:

If it interests you English is my first language so I’m well aware of the word obfuscation. 

I totally understand, sometimes even native language speakers find it difficult to follow written passages coherently, so no worries at all.

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5 minutes ago, The Chronicals said:

I totally understand, sometimes even native language speakers find it difficult to follow written passages coherently, so no worries at all.

No need to apologise, I understand the message you are trying to get across.

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8 minutes ago, Blackmetalboon said:

No need to apologise, I understand the message you are trying to get across.

Perfect, I'm happy you got there in the end....and goodnight y'all.

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I am at the stage where even if I had a billion in the bank, I am not sure I would be buying equipment like this. I am certain that it sounds great but I am pretty sure that it could be matched by a system at a fifth of the price as I doubt my fifty year old well used ears could pick out the differences. BTW, £40k buys some nice speakers and, it is personal taste but big ATC or JBL studio monitors would undoubtedly be on my list.

I do worry about the industry though: there have always been high-end products but it increasingly feels like more and more companies are shifting that way because the margins make limited sales more profitable. 

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On 28/05/2019 at 14:30, Turk 182 said:

here is a short video from the munich hi end show 2019 featuring the top of the range msb technologies system plus the magico m6 loudspeakers.

i believe the speakers alone cost £200.000 !

i wonder how liminal space by xanopticon would sound through this...

The challenge for me is getting a system that sounds at least as good as this one for less than 1% of the price of this or any other extremely expensive system.

It's a challenge that so far - in my admittedly very small statistical sample size - is acheivable.

Especially when doing it by my own rules whereby used and DIY'd equipment is allowed. As well as kit of any size, weight, age and looks.

There are also valid technical reasons why a much less expensive system might sound better than a hugely expensive one, such as having a signal path with as few components (especially transistors, valves, transformers) in it as possible - for that midrange purity that comes with well executed simple signal path systems.

Plus it's possible that when you look at the internals of certain manufacturers, they may be of the same quality as ones from hugely expensive brands. With vast differences in price being down to the cost of the casing, plus different business models and overheads.

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9 hours ago, The Chronicals said:

A lot of the videos though that are actually well produced, don't use phones. I generally ignore phone made videos, but a good example of a well produced video is the Pursuit Perfect team, they do good ones.

I appreciate that some videos are better recorded than others but I very specifically explained above that even with a recording that perfectly captures the sound of a system, trying to judge quality via such a recording is still flawed.

If you have multiple videos from the same person, recorded in a totally consistent manner and ideally with the same source material playing then you can just about start to make some sort of comparison, whilst bearing in mind that the differences are what is relevant rather than what may sound best. This is not generally what is done though, and the videos posted in this thread alone demonstrate this. If I compare your video above to the one that started this thread (which I'll copy below for easy comparison), I am none the wiser as to which system I might actually prefer the sound of.

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Super Wammer
4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

If you have multiple videos from the same person, recorded in a totally consistent manner and ideally with the same source material playing then you can just about start to make some sort of comparison, whilst bearing in mind that the differences are what is relevant rather than what may sound best. This is not generally what is done though, and the videos posted in this thread alone demonstrate this. If I compare your video above to the one that started this thread (which I'll copy below for easy comparison), I am none the wiser as to which system I might actually prefer the sound of.

Which is the right answer, nothing beats trying equipment in your own system. Even bake-off's or simple listening sessions in unusual surroundings are far from ideal, but they're much better than attempting to use compressed audio via a computer monitor or streaming to a main system to. Dealers and manufacturers are gradually getting around to the idea that loan equipment or fixed returns is the way forward and given the amount of hard earned cash I've wasted buying kit without knowing how it sounds in my listening room, paired with existing kit, I wish I'd had the chance to borrow or test sooner :) 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I appreciate that some videos are better recorded than others but I very specifically explained above that even with a recording that perfectly captures the sound of a system, trying to judge quality via such a recording is still flawed.

If you have multiple videos from the same person, recorded in a totally consistent manner and ideally with the same source material playing then you can just about start to make some sort of comparison, whilst bearing in mind that the differences are what is relevant rather than what may sound best. This is not generally what is done though, and the videos posted in this thread alone demonstrate this. If I compare your video above to the one that started this thread (which I'll copy below for easy comparison), I am none the wiser as to which system I might actually prefer the sound of.

For me, the second system is much prefered and easily identifiable for the changes between the two. But neither are too my liking whatsoever :) ...nor my bank accounts in relation to the second one.

As i said, its merely a flavour you are getting from well produced videos, and that leads you into further investigation. I think ignoring the wealth of information out there in videos reduced your research bandwidth massively, and if I had followed that path, I would have still been box swapping but I am so happy as to where I am at at the moment.

But...probably what hooked me in the most was finding an excellent dealer in Robbie at Audio Oasis who sent me untold amounts of kit to try free of charge. So the videos gave me an avenue to follow, and at home demo is what sold it for me. (To test this theory I tried some kit I didnt like the sound of in videos, and yes low and behold their essence was still 'there' in real life, and thus not something for me). There were other dealers who I did contact about demo kit, and some where forthcoming, some with absolutely terrible. So essentially the core of my money went to the two that sorted me out home demos, gave me no hassle and where totally chilled about the whole thing, which echoes a little of what Obscure says above.

I won't ever buy blind again as I've wasted too much dollar doing that in the past!

So for me, well produced videos give a flavour and an avenue to research. Its better than just buying 'blind' that a lot of people do anyway.

Edited by The Chronicals

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1 minute ago, The Chronicals said:

For me, the second system is much prefered and easily identifiable for the changes between the two.

My main point is that you think that based on the videos but you could very easily feel totally different if you heard both for real.

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1 minute ago, MartinC said:

My main point is that you think that based on the videos but you could very easily feel totally different if you heard both for real.

Yes I know thats your point, you've said it a few times :)  I agree to a point, but its not going to be possible in my lifetime, I have a life to lead rather than spending it and money searching the globe to listen to different hifi's! So the videos give an essence of a system, which is enough for me to choose to investigate further or not. I am 99.9% certain that system will sound fairly like in principal what we hear on the video. Sure I may miss out on good stuff, but I also find good stuff through this method, swings and roundabouts.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, The Chronicals said:

Yes I know thats your point, you've said it a few times :)  I agree to a point, but its not going to be possible in my lifetime, I have a life to lead rather than spending it and money searching the globe to listen to different hifi's! So the videos give an essence of a system, which is enough for me to choose to investigate further or not. I am 99.9% certain that system will sound fairly like in principal what we hear on the video. Sure I may miss out on good stuff, but I also find good stuff through this method, swings and roundabouts.

And I crucially disagree with the part in bold, as the videos may send you and others off in totally the wrong direction. I'm sticking with this because I believe this point is important, most specifically because it could erroneously lead to people discounting what could be very good options for them. Misleading 'information' is worse than no information at all.

Edited by MartinC

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15 minutes ago, MartinC said:

And I crucially disagree with the part in bold, as the videos may send you and others off in totally the wrong direction. I'm sticking with this because I believe this point is important, most specifically because it could erroneously lead to people discounting what could be very good options for them. Misleading 'information' is worse than no information at all.

I highly doubt that, being of the 21st century en all, it aint 1960 anymore Martin, but nay bother, each to their own.

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1 minute ago, The Chronicals said:

I highly doubt that, being of the 21st century en all, it aint 1960 anymore Martin, but nay bother, each to their own.

Well that wasn't patronising at all :roll:. I'm 42 BTW, so my terms of reference are more modern than you seem to be assuming.

Let me quote my explanation of why this is a problem, no matter what the year. Do you have a counter-argument?

15 hours ago, MartinC said:

Imagine a system that if you heard it for real would be the best system you'd ever heard, and to keep this simple let's take the huge leap of assuming a perfect recording that accurately captured this. If you play this back on your own system what you'll hear will have all of the relative limitations of your current system (including room related ones). Now consider another system that has flaws that counterbalance those of the system used to play it back (e.g. simplistically a recording of a bright system played back on one with an overly rolled off treble) - the result would sound better than the 'perfect' system. When you get to the extreme of many people listening to YouTube videos via laptop or mobile phone speakers the problem gets far worse.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Well that wasn't patronising at all :roll:. I'm 42 BTW, so my terms of reference are more modern than you seem to be assuming.

Let me quote my explanation of why this is a problem, no matter what the year. Do you have a counter-argument?

Not really, I was saying it wasn't 1960 anymore where video recording technology was primitive at best.

I think your second post is focusing far too much on trying to get a very clear portrayal of all aspects of the setup, which just isn't possible at all through video - I've been fairly open about that. I can see your observations though, and your hypothesis is valid, but the concept of using video playback is not to define an entire hifi where you could take it from the video and put it in your living room and it will sound the same, it is used as a research tool, the same as magazine reviews etc to form a basis of impression.

You have a problem hearing differences in cables from previous threads , so therefore being able to differentiate the elements of a video recording where can hear  certain sound signatures of the equipment whilst removing those elements from the recording and playback elements could also be difficult for you in my opinion, hence why we are at this gate right now, and while I am happy just to leave it as 'each to their own' you keep wanting to revisit the past posts on a sunny sunday morning, I personally, have gotten a little bored of it now :) 

Edited by The Chronicals

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