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Measurements, Compatibility and Ears ūüĎā

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Musicality is a subjective notion, while measurements are objective but very restricted to the thing being measured.

Trying to measure musicality is akin to modelling musicality. We first of all have to define what the parameters to be measured are, which will not be exhaustive, and then somehow define what "good" looks like, which is the subjective bit. What I do know is that all models are wrong, they are a partial view at best.

I agree with tuga's post above - if you took a bunch of components I like and did some measurements on them, you'd likely find a correlation which would point to my subjective preferences. I like transparency, warts and all, to me that is musical. Others may want the opposite, wanting a more bland sound that is more "listenable".

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Super Dealer

Musicality means nothing, whereas, for example ¬†if you like a particular valve amplifier, measurements will pinpoint exactly what you like about it, specs and measurements allow you to choose components that will work together without endlessly swapping components in the search for ‚Äėsynergy‚Äô.

Keith

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45 minutes ago, Nativebon said:

Can anyone tell me the cheapest of a source, DAC, amp and speakers that measures the best. Be careful now.:D

Cheap with good measurements? I'll bite. :mrgreen:

Entry level Musical Fidelity DAC £200, entry level Marantz integrated £200, entry level 6.5'' Elac standmounts £300, Fisual stands £50, Fisual cables... and your own laptop/desktop as file player.

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Super Wammer
3 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

Musicality means nothing, whereas, for example ¬†if you like a particular valve amplifier, measurements will pinpoint exactly what you like about it, specs and measurements allow you to choose components that will work together without endlessly swapping components in the search for ‚Äėsynergy‚Äô.

Keith

Synergy IS¬†compatibility ūüĎćūüŹĽ If you like what you hear, is it worth then measuring?¬†

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yes. go out, get a life, listen to a busker in the street. One without an amp and backing track, a pukka buska. One who likes pies.

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2 hours ago, tuga said:

Cheap with good measurements? I'll bite. :mrgreen:

Entry level Musical Fidelity DAC £200, entry level Marantz integrated £200, entry level 6.5'' Elac standmounts £300, Fisual stands £50, Fisual cables... and your own laptop/desktop as file player.

I think you should go for it. Will sure save you a lot of money.. xD

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2 minutes ago, Nativebon said:

I think you should go for it. Will sure save you a lot of money.. xD

Actually no because I can buy better (performing) equipment used for the same amount of money, or this same kit 2nd hand for a lot less.

That's what this is about right, getting the best performance for a given amount of money?

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Dealer

I once asked an absolutist objectivist if they could measure 'humility' but they weren't listening...

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13 minutes ago, tuga said:

Actually no because I can buy better (performing) equipment used for the same amount of money, or this same kit 2nd hand for a lot less.

That's what this is about right, getting the best performance for a given amount of money?

Ok may be my mistake not explaining myself. So in other words there is no cheap Hi-Fi that measures like the very best...  or is there?

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12 minutes ago, Nativebon said:

Ok may be my mistake not explaining myself. So in other words there is no cheap Hi-Fi that measures like the very best...  or is there?

I'd say no but it depends on what you mean by cheap. Depending on the equipment in question there's a price-point/sweet-spot beyond which you will not obtain significant improvements in measurable performance (i.e. your DAC).

And fortunately for us consumers the price-point has been coming down.

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28 minutes ago, tuga said:

That's what this is about right, getting the best performance for a given amount of money?ÔĽŅ

Hopefully for most of us.

Then there are those for whom the cost and status symbolism is more a thing.

Or the build and aesthetics are more a thing.

Or fit with lifestyle or property (hence all the 'lifestyle' systems being the fashion).

Or the relative rarity of revered and expensive components that earns them the title 'esoterica'.

Or any mix of the above.

I wish people were in hifi for just the sound quality. 

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27 minutes ago, Nativebon said:

Ok may be my mistake not explaining myself. So in other words there is no cheap Hi-Fi that measures like the very best...  or is there?

My take: for DACs, yes, for speakers, no. Amps I'm less sure of.

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Super Wammer

When an obviously subjective thread is started, then it would be really nice if the measurists/objectivists could all bugger off into a corner and play with their tape measures & oscilloscopes.

This would then leave those of us who actually use our ears to decide if we like what we hear and are prepared to pay the required price for the kit can chunter amongst ourselves. 

I like many others on here don't give a monkeys chuff about how something measures, or can be bothered to learn how to interpret the technical info. The only data we need is that which our ears give us. 

So, objectivist why not start you own thread along the lines of measure t aren't they exciting, or something similar. Leaving us subjectivists/Music lovers to our own devices. 

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3 minutes ago, Lurch said:

When an obviously subjective thread is started, then it would be really nice if the measurists/objectivists could all bugger off into a corner and play with their tape measures & oscilloscopes.

This would then leave those of us who actually use our ears to decide if we like what we hear and are prepared to pay the required price for the kit can chunter amongst ourselves. 

I like many others on here don't give a monkeys chuff about how something measures, or can be bothered to learn how to interpret the technical info. The only data we need is that which our ears give us. 

So, objectivist why not start you own thread along the lines of measure t aren't they exciting, or something similar. Leaving us subjectivists/Music lovers to our own devices. 

Why don't join a subjectivist-only audio forum?

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Just now, MartinC said:

My take: for DACs, yes, for speakers, no. Amps I'm less sure of.

Ok glad you said that. How many people currently here in this forum with a system costing 15 to 20k with a DAC or source player costing less than £300. I bet there would none. Unless may be second hand.

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