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Paulssurround

Throw Away Your Ethernet Cables And Audition Some Cat8 Ethernet Cables?

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Posted (edited)
On 11/07/2019 at 17:16, Manelus said:

I have been using a 17 meters CAT 7 from Router to Klimax DS Katalist for the last 3-4 years.

Now I was planning to replace it with a new Wireworld Chroma Cat.8 (not yet ordered), but that "earth loop" thing has stopped me from ordering it.

Question is:

A.- Keep my current CAT 7?

B.- Replace it with Meincord?

C.- Go ahead with Wireworld Chroma?

Please help me on that decision, after reading these 75 pages my ideas are not yet clear O.o

Just keep it simple, go with Linn recommendation, they design and make the world-class Linn Klimax so they know what they are talking about.

I myself would not accept snake oil...

Linn Recommendation

We recommend CAT-5e or CAT-6a cable, (UTP/FTP to your choice) with Linn DS/DSM & Exakt-Link

This is designed to work at a minimum of 100Mbps used in the Exakt-link and Linn DS Ethernet link.
Using higher spec cables will make no difference in the sound quality, but may be useful if the local network cable installation is going to be used with high bandwidth video streaming devices.

CAT-7 patch cable is not required and classed as OTT for Linn DS or Exakt Link operation.

Qualification

Any cables used with the Linn DS / Exakt-link should be tested to the required Qualification levels (100Mbps)

 

 

Edited by cspgqqt
too aggressive
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10 hours ago, cspgqqt said:

PS: My alias is CSPGQTT (CSPG = Computer Science Post Graduate and QTT is my initial). So if you attend a prestigious University of London, you will know that CSPG is a common prefix for a PHD student in Computer Science in the 90s/20s. So as a Computer professional, I hope I know what I am talking about.

 

 

Well, I for one don't rely on my university degree to help me choosing hifi-stuff. I trust my ears...

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Super Wammer
12 hours ago, cspgqqt said:

Just keep it simple, go with Linn recommendation, they design and make the world-class Linn Klimax so they know what they are talking about.

I myself would not accept snake oil...

Linn Recommendation

We recommend CAT-5e or CAT-6a cable, (UTP/FTP to your choice) with Linn DS/DSM & Exakt-Link

This is designed to work at a minimum of 100Mbps used in the Exakt-link and Linn DS Ethernet link.
Using higher spec cables will make no difference in the sound quality, but may be useful if the local network cable installation is going to be used with high bandwidth video streaming devices.

CAT-7 patch cable is not required and classed as OTT for Linn DS or Exakt Link operation.

Qualification

Any cables used with the Linn DS / Exakt-link should be tested to the required Qualification levels (100Mbps)

PS: My alias is CSPGQTT (CSPG = Computer Science Post Graduate and QTT is my initial). So if you attend a prestigious University of London, you will know that CSPG is a common prefix for a PHD student in Computer Science in the 90s/20s. So as a Computer professional, I hope I know what I am talking about.

 

 

Yep. And DC motors are rubbish, CD is a lemon etc. etc.

Linn were using Audioquest streaming cables at Bristol.

It might be warming us up for Linn Silver Streaming cables when the above statement will disappear just like the ones about DC motors and lemons did.

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Posted (edited)

>> From sunbeamgls: Yep. And DC motors are rubbish, CD is a lemon etc. etc.

Ah, I remember this.

I think this was tweaked out of context. In fact, it was just a test involving putting an ADC/DAC in line with an LP source and no one said CD was lemon,  what was actually said was that the implementation onto CD was deficient, but Ivor mis-stated the convenience and benefits of CD.

Edited by cspgqqt
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3 hours ago, Tendaberry said:

Well, I for one don't rely on my university degree to help me choosing hifi-stuff. I trust my ears...

I like that, trust your own ears, it's your money, your choice.

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Posted (edited)

“I THINK things usually happen” or I KNOW things usually happen?

Unless you have had the great fortune to hear Paul’s System at different stages during his tweaks, and heard the improvements made by them on his system, then your comments are about something about which you are entirely ignorant.

I find it odd so many posters claim to KNOW or THINK (when they precisely neither think nor know) what someone else’s stereo sounds like. As well, they think or know how a tweak has affected someone else’s system.

Why not just say “thanks for the suggestion, but it does not work for me” and leave it at that?

Edited by Eldarboy
Information
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1 hour ago, Eldarboy said:

“I THINK things usually happen” or I KNOW things usually happen?

Unless you have had the great fortune to hear Paul’s System at different stages during his tweaks, and heard the improvements made by them on his system, then your comments are about something about which you are entirely ignorant.

I find it odd so many posters claim to KNOW or THINK (when they precisely neither think nor know) what someone else’s stereo sounds like. As well, they think or know how a tweak has affected someone else’s system.

Why not just say “thanks for the suggestion, but it does not work for me” and leave it at that?

Thank you Eldarboy

Anyone who has followed my journey, and all the Linn component upgrades, tweaks and Space optimisation I have done, will know that I have claimed that there have been many significant improvements in sound quality on my adventures.

I have followed this up by travelling to 12 different countries and visited more than 100 Linn owner’s homes applying many of the lessons I have learned along the way, usually to well received improvements in sound quality.

In my Linn system, many of the improvements have been modest, some are highly notable, some are superb, and a surprising number of them have been astonishing. 

I generally will start a new thread on a topic if I think the potential improvements are notable or better, and felt that this thread was well worth posting given the results I was  experiencing in my system. 

My Certicable Cat8 cables fall into the astonishing category, in my system, and I certainly felt it was worthwhile to report my findings to other Linn owners as something worth trying as an audition in your system to see what you think. YMMV

Some other improvements that have been astonishing in my system have been the Katalyst  upgrade for my Akubariks, Space optimisation, acoustic room treatment, my Shunyata power conditioner and mains cords, my Environmental Potentials wave form correction device, SubDudes, and Gunstigs. 

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I doubt we shall see Linn streaming cable. Linn initially made a music server, but this was dropped when Linn found a Mac mini did the job. Linn cannot compete with computing and networking companies when it comes to making computer and network kit. Its forte is high fidelity sound reproduction.

At a Las Vegas show some volunteers were asked, under controlled conditions, if they could tell AudioQuest streaming cables from a cheap Ethernet cable, which had failed a Fluke test (i.e. not certified to Ethernet standard). They could not tell which was which. The conclusion was that huge differences claimed in HiFi publications were not something the testers could substantiate. No attempt was made to establish which was better, simply to find out if some folk could tell them apart.  

I do not think boutique cables offer anything, but the only way to know is try. My views may not be right, but they do save me money. I have reached the stage where I am happy with my system so no great inclination to experiment any further.

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9 hours ago, SSTOCK said:

Please read http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snla107a/snla107a.pdf, that explains some of Ethernet cable sound effects.

Well, it includes detail on how poorly designed ethernet and other PCB components may generate EMI that can be passed through an ethernet cable (claims that the TI components described do minimise that EMI).

I can't say I've really followed this thread (WAY too long...), but I doubt anyone has denied the possibility of the physical layer of ethernet conducting EMI?

I think what that document really demonstrates is that the hardware components used and PCB design are what is important in regards to noise and not the cable used (though they recommend the use of CAT5e compliant cables).

I know it wasn't really your point, but given the cost of Linn equipment I seriously hope they can at least match these TI ones, which start at $3 each, even when bought singly.

Linn have gone to great lengths to demonstrate how their DACs are not subject to transmitted noise such as this. If people are hearing differences between cables  based on differences in transmitted EMI from network gear (I myself haven't tried different cables, so can't offer any experience in the matter), then it suggests they haven't done as good a job as they claim, despite the cost...

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1 hour ago, Solanum said:

Linn have gone to great lengths to demonstrate how their DACs are not subject to transmitted noise such as this. If people are hearing differences between cables  based on differences in transmitted EMI from network gear (I myself haven't tried different cables, so can't offer any experience in the matter), then it suggests they haven't done as good a job as they claim, despite the cost...

Do they? think they refer to the reference level and output driver in that regard. The data itself is as susceptible to network noise as ever. It happens before the DAC. RIRO ;)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, timster said:

Do they? think they refer to the reference level and output driver in that regard. The data itself is as susceptible to network noise as ever. It happens before the DAC. RIRO ;)

? The data gets there or it doesn't and is resent. EMI being passed through is what (potentially) matters and Linn have talked a lot about the power supplies in their DACs.

Plus that's what the document link I replied to is talking about.

Edited by Solanum
Stupid autocorrect

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We're not talking about what goes into the DAC or what goes on within it. We're talking about what happens way upstream from there. I don't know why you brought the DAC into an argument about ethernet and network noise.

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If the DAC is not well designed, it can be susceptible to EMI.

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11 hours ago, Nestor Turton said:

At a Las Vegas show some volunteers were asked, under controlled conditions, if they could tell AudioQuest streaming cables from a cheap Ethernet cable, which had failed a Fluke test (i.e. not certified to Ethernet standard). They could not tell which was which. The conclusion was that huge differences claimed in HiFi publications were not something the testers could substantiate. No attempt was made to establish which was better, simply to find out if some folk could tell them apart.

Interesting, so I feel sorry for those who rush to spend their well-earned money on something that potentially makes their system sound not better, or even sound worse.

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