Paulssurround

Throw Away Your Ethernet Cables And Audition Some Cat8 Ethernet Cables?

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On 24/03/2019 at 09:55, phino said:

I'll take your word on Beyonce, her bits have never sullied my streamer :o

I've heard the Chord doesn't work with Exakt, maybe it's only a two-pair cable - which is good enough for 100Base-tx (fast Ethernet) but isn't even CAT5?  It seems pretty carefully worded on their site as a 'streaming cable'.

We need a rich person to buy one and cut the end off... any volunteers? 

Glad to hear that. I promise I have no records by Beyonce, but those at Chord Company must have as their web site refers to one of her tracks as an example of something that sounds better using their streaming cables. Personally, I shall be listening to the late great Scott Walker (Please Click) using plain old Blue Jeans Cables. I'm not even rich enough to cut its end off though. 

I don't really see the need to hold scientifically controlled experiments to decipher between cables. I have found those Linn recommends or supplies with its products work well and I enjoy listening to my music collection. Still if folk like such experimentation then that's fine. Me, I'd sooner be happy than right, but having learned of Scott's sad passing I guess the sun ain't gonna shine anymore. Think I'll play Tilt and The Drift to cheer up. 

Edited by Nestor Turton
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25 minutes ago, Nestor Turton said:

Glad to hear that. I promise I have no records by Beyonce, but those at Chord Company must have as their web site refers to one of her tracks as an example of something that sounds better using their streaming cables.

I'm fascinated that Chord imagine that their cables can discriminate between different tracks. :pop:

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Super Wammer
4 minutes ago, Tony_J said:

I'm fascinated that Chord imagine that their cables can discriminate between different tracks. :pop:

this is what happens when veils are lifted

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12 minutes ago, Maverick said:

this is what happens when veils are lifted

Call it expectation bias if you like, but I always imagine that much more interesting things happen when the veils are lifted... :whistle:

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Super Wammer
11 minutes ago, Tony_J said:

Call it expectation bias if you like, but I always imagine that much more interesting things happen when the veils are lifted... :whistle:

I've told you to stop tuning to that channel :clout:

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Super Wammer
47 minutes ago, Tony_J said:

I'm fascinated that Chord imagine that their cables can discriminate between different tracks. :pop:

They're not saying that.

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Super Wammer
4 hours ago, Croma said:

I never liked Linn noise, now I have greater reason to leave those who are enamoured to their noise making.

Well come those let down by their owners eviction and closure of their forum.

Good music making does not need tweaking c’est suffit

You seem to be suggesting that cable threads are unique to Linn discussions.  Perhaps there's a very large chunk of the internet missing from getting down the ethernet cables you're using :D

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10 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

You have not provided any scientific papers or evidence that  shows that there should be no difference.

I have on other threads. I don't feel it necessary to repost everything I have done so in the past for your sake.

You made a claim. Claims require evidence when contradicting science. I doubt any science paper provided to you will be sufficient.

Here's a paper about starting with a questions as to IF you can trust your ears, and some findings over what happens when audiophiles compare A and B, and unbeknownst to them, A and B are the same: 

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=5539

https://iosr.uk/projects/ias/papers/Zielinski.pdf (I'm seeing if this guy can provide some more specific and relevant information)

And others:

https://digital-library.theiet.org/content/journals/10.1049/et.2011.1118

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/02/measurements-ethernet-cables-and-audio.html

10 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

There are a number of audio reviews on-line that have done listening tests on the differences between the sound quality of different cables, conducted by experienced audiophiles, which you have ignored.

All the information was anecdotal (qualitative) and not statistical (quantitative). It's the same as just accepting your initial claim. My position is that people should test claims, and remove the possibility of expectation bias. It they listen to 50+ tracks and can still hear a difference unsighted without knowledge of the system change (and correctly choosing the item that sounds better more than chance), then it's worthwhile.

Separate to that, I'm just interested in why there would be a difference if indeed the phenomena of hearing a difference persists when the test is done unsighted without any knowledge of what cable is hooked up. What's so bad about that? It ensures people make worthwhile changes to the system that aren't because of expectation bias that everybody (including me and all objectivists) are subject to when we permit all our senses and prior knowledge to be able to influence a decision.

If you want the best for any customer or friend, you should be supporting the removal of cognitive bias possibilities.

10 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

A number of people on this thread have posted their personal observations which state that there are differences, and some have  even found improvements in sound quality with Cat8 in their personal system, including myself. 

None from a proper blind test - so expectation bias (positive/negative, mixed) will remain because we all have it and it cannot be removed unless we perform a properly controlled test.

10 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

I posted a link to a report that shows there are differences in sound quality, and you have ignored it.

Where? Has it got measurements or anecdotes? Again, quantitative blind test or sighted and full of emotive prose?

10 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

You are welcome to visit my home and do some listening tests?   

I can arrange for these test to be done at my current Linn dealer, as well as my previous Linn dealer.

I am sure they would be pleased to demonstrate to you the differences in sound quality between cables.

That's a bit OTT, I will do any tests here thanks and probably do one with Peter when I get some time if he's OK with it (seems to be). As far as the reference to The Sound Room in Vancouver, I am not entirely sure you're not affiliated with them at this time. Please confirm you are not in the Hifi trade, or one of the prior/current owners (including from when it was called CGM Electronics). 

If I was going to Canada, it would be for visiting family in Saanich.

Really Paul, I don't see why we have so much knickers-in-a-twist. If you/anybody can truly hear a difference sighted, they should hear the same difference in a controlled unsighted test. If they don't, then the likely cause was a cognitive bias of some type.

Doing these tests is only a means to an end. That end is separating foo from fact, and anecdotal stories from repeatably reproducible results, so we don't deceive ourselves inadvertently, or others. I can see nothing wrong with being thorough to ensure such.

I do see believe that avoiding rigour to establish truth of a matter is a propagation of FUD. I'm not calling you out on this - I already said we don't really need to test you now as we discussed other ways on the thread, but it is what it is. Personally, I'd be happy if whenever you happened to be in the UK we did the test with a proper friendly disposition and less antipathy. 

Edited by Metatron

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