Paulssurround

Throw Away Your Ethernet Cables And Audition Some Cat8 Ethernet Cables?

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2 minutes ago, 9designs said:

By this logic then Ethernet of over mains adaptors shouldn’t work at all or sound a disaster ? 

Pretty much a disaster if you have your music to player link over the mains yes.

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13 minutes ago, Paulssurround said:

I liken a Cat5 or Cat 6 Ethernet cable as a 2 lane highway, and a Cat8 as a 25 lane freeway.   😉

...but to stretch your analogy a little further, a 25 lane freeway makes naff all difference if all you are driving is a 100cc motor scooter...

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, timster said:

Pretty much a disaster if you have your music to player link over the mains yes.

Not that much of an disaster in my home. I auditioned a Melco N1A/2 which was placed next to my Linn KRDSM vs my Desktop HD which is connected via TP-Link AV1200 powerline connectors. When I played the same song in comparison, the Melco sounded worse. The reason was, that the file on the Melco was 16/44, while the file on my desktop was 24/48. As the better software clearly outperformed the allegedly superior hardware, the distortion by the LAN over power obviously was not that much disastrous.

I agree with Paul's explaination on the different sound of LAN cables though. The cables don't affect the payload (digital music signal) directly as this is protected, but EMF is an issue. Remember, we are in the microwave domain with digital music.

Edited by TooManyCatweazles
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Lumin’s new X1 features an optical network connection, dispensing with the need for Ethernet. Some users have reported sonic advantages of an optical connection over Ethernet using this player.

So maybe ‘Ethernet isn’t just Ethernet’ after all? I must admit, I’m sceptical that Ethernet cables sound different, but SPDIF cables sound different IMO. So why not Ethernet cables?

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13 minutes ago, TooManyCatweazles said:

Not that much of an disaster in my home. I auditioned a Melco N1A/2 which was placed next to my Linn KRDSM vs my Desktop HD which is connected via TP-Link AV1200 powerline connectors. When I played the same song in comparison, the Melco sounded worse. The reason was, that the file on the Melco was 16/44, while the file on my desktop was 24/48. As the better software clearly outperformed the allegedly superior hardware, the distortion by the LAN over power obviously was not that much disastrous.

I agree with Paul's explaination on the different sound of LAN cables though. The cables don't affect the payload (digital music signal) directly as this is protected, but EMF is an issue. Remember, we are in the microwave domain with digital music.

Thank you Catweazel.

Yes, Ethernet cables are very much effected by their proximity to EMF.

That is why I keep posting about keeping Ethernet cables away from the mains

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Would there be any point in this experiment if my present home was hard wired with standard Cat 5e from  router to distribution board to the hardwired ethernet socket in my music room and then using a standard 5e cable from this point to the Linn DS?

The only cable I could realistically replace without ripping up ceilings with this newer cat8 cable would be the end point cable from ethernet socket to Linn DS.

I have tried a cat7 cable here but personally found it a tad too 'tizzy' in sound; exasperating sibilance...

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1 minute ago, kelly200269 said:

Lumin’s new X1 features an optical network connection, dispensing with the need for Ethernet. Some users have reported sonic advantages of an optical connection over Ethernet using this player.

So maybe ‘Ethernet isn’t just Ethernet’ after all? I must admit, I’m sceptical that Ethernet cables sound different, but SPDIF cables sound different IMO. So why not Ethernet cables?

It’s all connected.    😂

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Just now, parcelmonkey said:

Would there be any point in this experiment if my present home was hard wired with standard Cat 5e from  router to distribution board to the hardwired ethernet socket in my music room and then using a standard 5e cable from this point to the Linn DS?

The only cable I could realistically replace without ripping up ceilings with this newer cat8 cable would be the end point cable from ethernet socket to Linn DS.

I have tried a cat7 cable here but personally found it a tad too 'tizzy' in sound; exasperating sibilance...

I don’t know the answer in your case, but I do know that cable installers are well aware of serious issues with Ethernet cables installed in the wall, right next to mains cables.

It will serious degrade sound quality, and effect data transmission.

I would be happy to come over to your place, as part of the demolition crew, to remove the old cables.   😛

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1 minute ago, Paulssurround said:

I don’t know the answer in your case, but I do know that cable installers are well aware of serious issues with Ethernet cables installed in the wall, right next to mains cables.

It will serious degrade sound quality, and effect data transmission.

I would be happy to come over to your place, as part of the demolition crew, to remove the old cables.   😛

In reverse order - No need, we are moving hopefully in the next few months. ;-)

Sound quality is fine and good enough at present and I feel no need to sort issues presently.

Interesting thoughts as something isn't spot on as I feel there is not necessarily a harshness but a 'tizz' sometimes to tracks, having read with interest @Fourlegs journey with his Wave cables I wondered if EMF's were part of the issue?

New house, I will be better informed & aware of potential issues regarding proximity to mains cables etc...

:^

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My comment earlier re Ethernet over mains was some what leading,  as by chance I compared such against a hardwired 20 meter CAT7 cable. Reason is I couldn't link multiple DS's from upstairs and downstairs due to split ring mains. Having one upstairs, I laid a CAT7 cable in over the loft direct from my switch. 

Sorry guys, have to burst your "disaster bubble"   If there was a difference it was so subtle to be with in the realms of perception bias or a placebo.   I since replaced the link between the NAS and switch with CAT7, (from 5) will repeat the test again this week to confirm or revise results. 

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Super Wammer
51 minutes ago, parcelmonkey said:

Would there be any point in this experiment if my present home was hard wired with standard Cat 5e from  router to distribution board to the hardwired ethernet socket in my music room and then using a standard 5e cable from this point to the Linn DS?

The only cable I could realistically replace without ripping up ceilings with this newer cat8 cable would be the end point cable from ethernet socket to Linn DS.

I have tried a cat7 cable here but personally found it a tad too 'tizzy' in sound; exasperating sibilance...

For those who like to enjoy better ethernet cables (for whatever reason), the usual advice is work back from the DS - so the last cable in the chain being the most important.

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Super Wammer

FWIW, at the Bristol Show last month, I was surprised to see Linn using Audioquest ethernet cables into their array of Selekt DSMs.  Despite lots of years of "any old Cat 5 will do".

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'king hell, when I read a post like this I wish the old guys were back! 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Tony_J said:

...but to stretch your analogy a little further, a 25 lane freeway makes naff all difference if all you are driving is a 100cc motor scooter...

But, when driving my McLaren P1, 25 lanes would allow for extra run-off when I lose it on a bend.

Edited by SnapperMike
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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, phino said:

Interesting warning by Linn, but their main point - as far as I understand - is, that Cat 7/8 maybe detrimental to the length of connection. Well, I use a 1m Cat 7 Exakt link between KRDSM and AEbox6. It was a truly cheap cable (less than 2 €), and buying it was provoked by my not-believing in sound differences of LAN cables. I proved myself wrong, switched on brains, and knocked my head at the wall, as I could have known better. (I worked in the defense industrycearlier in my life, and was well awar of EMF and ITSEC issues).

All I can say from auditioning using tune-dem: the CAT 7 sounds better than my previously used 5/6 cables. There is a clear direction dependence. I verified my results, by getting my 16 yr old in, who confirmed what I heard, without being influenced.

Meanwhile, I had the opportunity to compare my CAT 7 vs Melco cable and a (lower-end) Chord, and both went back to the dealer, as the difference did not justify the extra money.

Linn's warning may hold with longer Exakt link connections, though?

Edited by TooManyCatweazles

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