alphatoner

TT Speed, What's an acceptable variation

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I suspect he means the variation in rpm between decks and between models and manufacturers ie. Manufacturing tolerances.

If so it's still a weird question. Unless you have perfect pitch or need to sync the sound to something that is in tune eg. Electric keyboard then since you likely won't hear the frequency error what does it matter? If you have perfect pitch then the acceptable error is near zero.

It might plausibly matter with respect to timing, though even there a 1% speed error will make a 5 minute track 3 seconds longer or shorter which I would argue is unlikely to make much difference to most.

It would be a spectacularly poor direct drive table that had a 1% absolute speed error, I can't speak for the PRaT brigade's approach with belt drives but increasing speed seems a freaky thing to do IMHO?

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

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Super Wammer
17 hours ago, bigfool1956 said:

This amazing video with Rick Beato's son Dylan shows what a person with AP can do.

Wow, that's amazing. 

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This is all too technical for me. ;)

Remember hearing a DD table with a strobe light they sounded faster than my belt driven table.

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I remember hearing a friend’s SL1210s once. Despite being set up as a home DJ system, the sheer ‘drive’ was infectious and made my Rega sound positively ‘arthritic’  by comparison. 

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I think the OP is asking “if you use a digital strobe to measure the speed of the platter, and you see the speed varying on the the strobes display as the platter rotates, how much variation from true 33.3rpm is acceptable?”. If that is the question then my own answer is none - no speed variation from one platter rotation to the next should be seen. I have a digital strobe for measuring platter speed (I have loads of ways of measuring platter speed) and if the digital readout meter is used then the speed is absolutely stable. 

Wow should be pretty easy to hear for most people. Flutter cannot be heard directly in the same way wow can, but does impact the sound.

Edit: I see the OP is using an Inspire turntable based on the Technics 1200/1210 and I wouldn’t expect any speed variation/drift (when measuring with a speed strobe) unless there is a fault.

Edited by YNWAN
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2 hours ago, YNWAN said:

I think the OP is asking “if you use a digital strobe to measure the speed of the platter, and you see the speed varying on the the strobes display as the platter rotates, how much variation from true 33.3rpm is acceptable?”. If that is the question then my own answer is none - no speed variation from one platter rotation to the next should be seen.

^^^This^^^

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If I'm happy with what I hear then the turntable speed is acceptable.

If, however, I feel that the tempo of a track is a bit too slow or a bit too fast then the turntable speed is unacceptably wrong.

The first stereo that we had when I was a child ran noticeably slow, to the point that it was probably a semi-tone too low and everything was at once extra weighty and lacking in energy. In the end I preferred listening to a cheap mono portable for that reason.

There is also, however, a pitch comparison to be had between vinyl playback and CD playback of the same track and, in the case of my Thorens TD166 turntable, there's a barely (I say "barely") noticeable pitch difference that, to be honest, I'm not bothered about.

In short, if everything sounds OK during everyday listening then the speed is acceptable. Measuring this stuff might simply lead to unnecessary dissatisfaction so, perhaps, it's better to simply play it by ear.

Edited by Sotosound
Typo

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3 hours ago, YNWAN said:

I think the OP is asking “if you use a digital strobe to measure the speed of the platter, and you see the speed varying on the the strobes display as the platter rotates, how much variation from true 33.3rpm is acceptable?”. If that is the question then my own answer is none - no speed variation from one platter rotation to the next should be seen. I have a digital strobe for measuring platter speed (I have loads of ways of measuring platter speed) and if the digital readout meter is used then the speed is absolutely stable. 

Wow should be pretty easy to hear for most people. Flutter cannot be heard directly in the same way wow can, but does impact the sound.

Edit: I see the OP is using an Inspire turntable based on the Technics 1200/1210 and I wouldn’t expect any speed variation/drift (when measuring with a speed strobe) unless there is a fault.

Nope not what I mean at all. I'm not talking about variation on the same turntable, see new post below

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Hmm... well I look forward to reading your new post because, so far, what you want to know is as clear as mud!

Edit: I see your last post, promising further explanation in a future post, was an hour ago - are you still composing it, or just given up?

Edited by YNWAN
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This thread reminds me of Abbott and Costello's Who's On First sketch.

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On 19/02/2019 at 13:53, Danielquinn said:

Stats are meaningless.

Youd be surprised about what variation you listen to.

The difference between speed with and without needle is greater than 1%

Perhaps not - the spec on the Systemdek IIx is speed variation of less than 0.15% under load - so it should be at least that for most reasonable turntables.  :) 

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