Kegworth Show Information

The information for this year's show is now live at www.thehifishow.com or by clicking on the show banner below.

NON EXHIBITOR ROOMS NOW OPEN - Special Offer....Stay Saturday, join in all the build up excitement on Sat night and then gain FREE access to the show on Sunday

LAST MINUTE WAM HIFI SHOW AVAILABILITY - ONLY A FEW EXHIBITOR ROOMS LEFT - ONLY 5 SLEEP ONLY ROOMS LEFT - ONLY 3 BIG SYSTEM SPACES LEFT

DJK

Speaker Volume Offsets

Recommended Posts

Hi

I've just updated Konfig to the latest version. I  have noticed that there is a box entitled "Change Speaker Volume Offsets". It may have been there before but I have not noticed it. Anyway, I clicked on it and was presented with the opportunity to add or subtract a few dB to each speaker. I did click on 1 speaker. I had no idea what difference a dB would make and even though I sit slightly off-centre I didn't make any changes. My wife called upstairs that there had been a horrific hissing noise from the left speaker (which she was sitting next to). It seems that nothing has been fried; music comes from left and right hand side. I see that there is a track in the playlist entitled "Pink Noise Test".  Be great if someone could explain what all this is about. There is already the opportunity in Konfig -> Volume to adjust the balance so I cannot see what use this is. 

Thanks in advance,

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pink noise sounds subjectively (approximately) like an equal distribution of all frequencies, since the ear has a lower sensitivity for lower frequencies and these have a higher amplitude for pink noise ("compensating"). Pink noise is often used for loudspeaker measurements because the energy distribution over the frequency spectrum is quite similar to that of music.

You can use it to determine if the signal comes completely from the center and adjust it if necessary.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's probably less useful in an Exakt system (assuming you have SO+ turned on) as Exakt will compensate for time-of-flight differences in an off-centre set up. But it can help with volume levels.

It's a  much finer grained control than the balance control. Also, balance will increase the gain on one side and simultaneously decrease the other. The volume offset will only affect each speaker independently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, timster said:

It's probably less useful in an Exakt system (assuming you have SO+ turned on) as Exakt will compensate for time-of-flight differences in an off-centre set up. But it can help with volume levels.

It's a  much finer grained control than the balance control. Also, balance will increase the gain on one side and simultaneously decrease the other. The volume offset will only affect each speaker independently.

Sorry Timster, that is not at all what the speaker volume offsets are designed for.

It is extremely useful in an Exakt system, and allows me to precisely set the volume of each of my speakers in stereo, and in a 5.1 channel surround system.

It allows you to change the volume of each speaker independently, and it does that by generating pink noise when the volume is changed by even a fraction of a dB.

Then you can use a microphone to measure the volume of each speaker at the listening position, using a sound pressure meter. It is important to be aware of how you place the sound pressure meter, for accurate readings from each channel.

Once you have adjusted the volume to give the same dB reading on your sound pressure meter for all the speakers, then you can be assured that you have the same dB volume arriving at the listening position. Otherwise, speakers that are closer to you will sound too loud.

One very strange anomaly , is that when I make the adjustments using the offsets and generate the pink noise, I used to lose my playlist. I have not used it in a while, so don't know if it still does that?

Hi Dave, I hope that is helpful to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Paul, interesting. Not having surround I didn't know how effective it could be in that set up in particular. If you remember I did actually have my right speaker offset by around 0.5dB when you came to do your thang, turning it off in process. I only did that by ear and I've not put it back. Do you think I should? Any recommendations/advice on mics/sound-pressure meters and how to use them?

It's seems obvious really, especially where that's a lot of speakers and probably different amplifier characteristics. No matter what Exakt or SO does, there is likely to be small differences.

I wonder what the "we've dropped the mic" folk at Linn would make of your method though! ;)

The pink noise does that. Clears the playlist and reloads a mono track, AND puts Repeat on. Annoying!

I did also wonder why it only did one speaker at a time. Surely it would "easier" to figure out the centre point/perfect balance when both are playing it together?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks for the explanations. I’m very nervous about fiddling with settings. I am seriously considering some Kudos Speakers in the not too distant future. I will leave things as they are until then and get some help  to set them up. Incidentally anybody got any experience of Super 20s vs 505s. Considerable difference in price. The interior designer was not happy with the visual contribution  of previous standmounts. The 505s will have to be a a big step up in performance If we are to go that way. Will they be too “good” for the rest of the system?

thanks again,

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, DJK said:

Many thanks for the explanations. I’m very nervous about fiddling with settings. I am seriously considering some Kudos Speakers in the not too distant future. I will leave things as they are until then and get some help  to set them up. Incidentally anybody got any experience of Super 20s vs 505s. Considerable difference in price. The interior designer was not happy with the visual contribution  of previous standmounts. The 505s will have to be a a big step up in performance If we are to go that way. Will they be too “good” for the rest of the system?

thanks again,

Dave

That's something only you can decide. I auditioned the Super20As with your exakt set up and I fell for them big time but couldn;'t afford it at the time. It would be my next thing though. Didn't hear the 505s so can't comment. Hopefully your/a dealer will be able to demo them for you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, timster said:

That's something only you can decide. I auditioned the Super20As with your exakt set up and I fell for them big time but couldn;'t afford it at the time. It would be my next thing though.

I am loving my Super 20s driven by a Exaktbox-I

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, timster said:

Thanks Paul, interesting. Not having surround I didn't know how effective it could be in that set up in particular. If you remember I did actually have my right speaker offset by around 0.5dB when you came to do your thang, turning it off in process. I only did that by ear and I've not put it back. Do you think I should? Any recommendations/advice on mics/sound-pressure meters and how to use them?

It's seems obvious really, especially where that's a lot of speakers and probably different amplifier characteristics. No matter what Exakt or SO does, there is likely to be small differences.

I wonder what the "we've dropped the mic" folk at Linn would make of your method though! ;)

The pink noise does that. Clears the playlist and reloads a mono track, AND puts Repeat on. Annoying!

I did also wonder why it only did one speaker at a time. Surely it would "easier" to figure out the centre point/perfect balance when both are playing it together?

I vaguely remember that you had your right speaker offset.

I remember your left speaker was tight in the left corner and probably over emphasizing the bass as a result, therefore the offset?

There are free sound pressure meter apps you can download for your smart phone that use the microphone in your phone for measuring the dB. Some do a very reasonable job.

The issue with measuring speakers with a microphone, is having it at the listening position, so it represents the sound waves coming from each speaker. Holding it in your hand may not give the best results. In surround, it is even more tricky, as the microphone may not measure the sound pressure equally, coming from different speaker directions. A microphone stand is helpful in some cases.

I only use a microphone for the sound pressure measurements, but not for Space optimisation.

I have also used a microphone for using Space Tones, to measure the volume at each individual frequencies between 20Hz-100 Hz, and look for room modes. (Thank you Gary at Better Music, where ever you are)

For surround, you have to do just one speaker at a time, otherwise impossible to set up a balanced surround at the listening position..

My Classe surround processor also had speaker volume offsets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

I remember your left speaker was tight in the left corner and probably over emphasizing the bass as a result, therefore the offset?

Yes, the left is up tight in the corner while the right is in open space. But the reason I had tried the offset was more to do with the fact the right speaker is slightly (very slightly) further away from my listening position.

11 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

There are free sound pressure meter apps you can download for your smart phone that use the microphone in your phone for measuring the dB. Some do a very reasonable job.

Call me a luddite but I only have a windows tablet, and I don't have a smart phone (and hope to be able to live without one for as long as practical!). I may have to replace the tablet with an iPad one day but it's not something I wish to do. It possibly won't last - like trying to go cashless. Turns out is is still impractical to do so in reality.

Maybe one day I'll try but it sounds pretty balanced as it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, timster said:

Yes, the left is up tight in the corner while the right is in open space. But the reason I had tried the offset was more to do with the fact the right speaker is slightly (very slightly) further away from my listening position.

Call me a luddite but I only have a windows tablet, and I don't have a smart phone (and hope to be able to live without one for as long as practical!). I may have to replace the tablet with an iPad one day but it's not something I wish to do. It possibly won't last - like trying to go cashless. Turns out is is still impractical to do so in reality.

Maybe one day I'll try but it sounds pretty balanced as it is.

It would be great if you had a bit of extra room to pull the speakers  farther away from the front wall, to allow them to breathe a bit more.

It could really open up the sound stage and improve the bass.

Hope you are enjoying your Katalyst upgrade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Paulssurround said:

It would be great if you had a bit of extra room to pull the speakers  farther away from the front wall, to allow them to breathe a bit more.

It could really open up the sound stage and improve the bass.

Hope you are enjoying your Katalyst upgrade

Yeah, such is life though. That's one of the reasons I wanted to change to the Kudos - they have downfiring bass ports and aren't so sensitive to rear walls.

And yes - the music never sounded so... musical :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, timster said:

Yeah, such is life though. That's one of the reasons I wanted to change to the Kudos - they have downfiring bass ports and aren't so sensitive to rear walls.

And yes - the music never sounded so... musical :)

If you are looking at the Kudos, give some serious consideration to Wilson Benesch for an audition.

I don't know how easy it would be to convert them to Exakt with Exakt Design, but they are great performers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.