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whitehart

CD Alive and Well?

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7 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

CD and a lossless ripped version of that cd are identical and played through the same dac will of course sound  identical.

Keith

Of course. Who could possibly think otherwise?

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Super Dealer

Yes it would be as ridiculous as believing cables have ‘memory’.

Keith

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27 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

Yes it would be as ridiculous as believing cables have ‘memory’.

Keith

Or as ridiculous as believing one can measure everything which defines the merits or shortcomings of any given product?

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Super Dealer

Which merits or shortcomings did you have in mind, in this case we have no need of measurement we just need to compare, preferably unsighted so your over active imagination and preconceptions don’t get in the way.

Keith

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9 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

CD and a lossless ripped version of that cd are identical and played through the same dac will of course sound  identical.

I guess you could argue that a poorly designed DAC might be sensitive to input noise or jitter differences in a way that does cause audible (and measurable) differences, but well designed DACs that shouldn't be affected by these things are pretty cheap these days.

I still play CDs for 'proper' listening on my main system, reserving online streaming for use in my kitchen (using my phone connected to a relatively old Tivoli radio). I'm not avoiding a PC based solution for sound quality reasons though. It would cost me both money and a fair amount of time to switch, plus I do kind of like the physical format too.

I do expect it will become increasingly hard to buy new CDs over time. Now is a great time for those interested to be buying second hand CDs though.

Edited by MartinC

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Super Wammer
5 hours ago, TheFlash said:

With respect, George, you’re missing the point and, if I may say so, not for the first time... 😏

If you can hear a difference but can’t measure any difference, it’s not that measurements aren’t measuring what’s important it’s that you’re fooling yourself. 

If you can hear a difference and can measure that difference, it proves that measurements work.

The point of hifi is not to lovingly and subjectively assemble a system which you think gives you listening pleasure; it is to dispassionately assemble a system of components which measure superbly, and then you won’t just think, you will know it sounds great. So will others who haven’t ever heard it. And you’ll have a robust evidence base to support your choices if challenged. What’s not to like?

Head over heart every time, dear boy; head over heart.

This has been a public service broadcast. Thanks for listening. Please press 1 to participate in a short customer satisfaction survey.

Sometimes your tongue is so far pressed in the cheek that even I do the occasional double take before I smile, nod and then move along. 

I did press one several times but appeared to get through to the NHS. 

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Personally, I've never downloaded an album and never will... I begrudge paying £7.99 or more,  for something I can't fully own in physical format. 

By all means rip CD to a quality streamer and store away.

Mac 

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8 minutes ago, whitehart said:

Personally, I've never downloaded an album and never will... I begrudge paying £7.99 or more,  for something I can't fully own in physical format. 

By all means rip CD to a quality streamer and store away.

Mac 

I prefer owning the CD as well, however, I make exceptions on places like Bandcamp where the artist benefits from the download rather than a S/H seller benefiting from me purchasing the used CD...

I still own the Downloaded RAR file and it's mine to take wherever I choose.

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6 minutes ago, whitehart said:

Personally, I've never downloaded an album and never will... I begrudge paying £7.99 or more,  for something I can't fully own in physical format. 

By all means rip CD to a quality streamer and store away.

Mac 

I used to feel the same but last year I really embraced buying downloads. The fact that I can get the music almost instantly, usually for considerably less money that a physical format, is a major draw.

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Super Wammer
9 hours ago, Fourlegs said:

Agreed that the files might be the same but the delivery mechanism leaves open a host of different RF and other noise artifacts to get overlaid on the digital signal and hence into the analogue stage of the DAC. That is why CD can sometimes sound better than a ripped file.

How big a percentage is the "sometimes"?  Suspect 10% at best.

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Super Wammer

Measure this picture.

2016.08.18-Working-for-a-Large-Company-v

One is large, the other is small

One is heavy, the other is light

One has a larger percentage of darker areas than the other

The have the same number of paws

One's ears are a larger percentage of the overall surface area than the other

One consumes x time more food than the other which has consequences at the other end

Once the measurements are all done, someone will be able to tell which one you prefer.  Because they've done the measurements.

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Wasn't it Bruce Willis who took Apple to task over not "owning" the music in his itunes library? I think if you've grown up with all the formats, you tend to lean towards the physical item- middle aged men are suckers for a deluxe cd booklet, even if it's too small to read! My brother in law swears that vinyl is superior, even though his system is too budget to tell the difference (Denon DM 37 mini system with matching tiny speakers). I tend to agree withe the notion that a really good vinyl system costs a lot more than a cd based one. Plus, there's a part of me that feels streaming and downloads somehow commodify music?

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Super Wammer

When vinyl was my main source, I would enjoy the cover and notes, particularly the lyrics.

When CD was my main source I would read the booklet a maximum of 2 times and very rarely refer to the lyrics (on the few occasions when they were provided), so the CD case and booklet isn't necessary for me.  The format doesn't lend itself to great artwork like an LP cover (or, better still, a gatefold double LP cover!).

Now, with streaming (from locally held downloads or ripped CDs), on the few occasions I'm interested, I look up stuff on my tablet.  I mainly focus on the music.

Because of this I have no problem at all with buying a download (CD quality or above), and all my ripped CDs and their cover / booklet are in slim sleeves in the loft.  I don't feel any need to have a physical thing for my money, its the music I'm buying, not the physical artefact.  The rest is available on the tablet - a much more flexible and informative format than the booklet.

So, have I changed my requirements or has the format change driven a change in the way I interact with it?  I'll never know the answer.  But I do know that my listening room is wonderfully free of media clutter and I'm pretty sure that helps with relaxing into the music.

So we're all different.

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Super Wammer
On 10/02/2019 at 14:02, Muckplaster said:

Utter cobblers as usual from the Foo dealer.

And an equally cobblers knee jerk response

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