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The Truth About Vinyl - Vinyl vs. Digital

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7 minutes ago, mentt said:

Even from the same master vinyl and digital release won’t sound the same. CD played via two different CD players won’t sound the same. The same goes for vinyl. In the past vinyl releases had different/better master and that was the main reason why vinyl sounded better. Nowadays there is usually one digital master for both vinyl and digital releases 

Often there is some additional EQ to the vinyl. For instance, if there is a lot of 16khz+ content that can be a problem for the cutter head, so the solution is adding a low pass filter at 16khz and adding some top end back in around 10-12khz to minimise groove distortion. Sometimes a high pass filter is needed to control the bass too and to get a louder cut since the bass uses up extra vinyl area. What many don't realise is that cutter heads have their own frequency response (as cartridges do) and they often vary considerably. A good cutting engineer knows his equipment and adjusts accordingly.

When I was mastering it was standard that the CD Master and vinyl master came from the same digital master. However, these days we have instances of remasters for digital and vinyl being completely different. A good example of this is Frank Zappa 2010/2011 releases. Bob Ludwig and Bob Katz mastered the CD of Sheik Yerbouti and Joe's Garage respectively, but  Chris Bellman and Bernie Grundman did the direct to vinyl mastering from the analogue tapes. The CD's have some, but not much digital limiting. The vinyl has none.

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32 minutes ago, mentt said:

Even from the same master vinyl and digital release won’t sound the same. CD played via two different CD players won’t sound the same. The same goes for vinyl. In the past vinyl releases had different/better master and that was the main reason why vinyl sounded better. Nowadays there is usually one digital master for both vinyl and digital releases 

I agree, too many variables but the cds will sound a lot closer than the differences with vinyl, by which, I mean if you just change the cartridge will make a considerable difference to the sound. Putting a digital master straight onto a vinyl record is not a good idea. It should be mastered for that medium. Best to compare a decent LP v CD. Led Zepp the original UK pressings were meant to be good, I never found Led Zepp that good on CD.

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On 10/02/2019 at 13:28, mentt said:

I think the main point here is quality of the master and if the same master is used for both vinyl and digital releases 

I think there is a lot more to it than that. It depends how long the music is, how many minutes you will fit on each side of the record, if only about 15 minutes per side you can fit a lot more onto the record, if you are cramming 25-30 minutes on then the sound quality will be compromised and the bass will be reduced. Bass has to handled differently on vinyl, also the high notes to avoid siblence. There have been complaints from record buyers that some records do seem to be using the same master on the LP. 

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Super Dealer

PQ is a wonderful salesman,  doesn’t know the first thing about digital. 

Keith

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41 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

PQ is a wonderful salesman,  doesn’t know the first thing about digital. 

Keith

But he knows a lot more than some dealers. ;)

As does Andy Grove and Darko.

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1 hour ago, Danielquinn said:

Digital  is akin to minceing  a cow , making the mince into a cow shape and saying there you are a cow.

Love that :)

Thank you

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It is interesting how certain technologies at a certain point in time capture the imagination and emotions, rather like steam engines for instance. And flat vinyl records seem to be the same.

No one yearns for the days of the wax cylinder for example, well, maybe Tony Hancock! Mind you, actually, perhaps a cylinder would be better - at least you don't have to turn it over and you haven't got a varying radius and speed to cope with... any takers...? 9_9

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On 10/02/2019 at 13:19, uzzy said:

I do not think it is about EQ .. there is a fundamental difference between analogue and digital recording. Early digital recordings were done at much lower bit rates and of course the original DACs were not as good.   There can be a fundamental hardness about CDs .. my wife in the 80s could not listen to cds for longer than half an hour without getting a headache and forbade me from buying them ... and of course if your cup of tea is older music which was analogue then you are at the hands of how much effort the companies put into converting that media to digital (most AAD CDs fail miserably when compared to the original vinyl).

Blimey your wife is old. :O)

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27 minutes ago, v1nn1e said:

No one yearns for the days of the wax cylinder for example, well, maybe Tony Hancock! Mind you, actually, perhaps a cylinder would be better - at least you don't have to turn it over and you haven't got a varying radius and speed to cope with... any takers...? 9_9

The wax cylinder had certain advantages, no tracking errors and associated distortion, etc. But a nightmare to manufacture in quantity, bulky to store. So it was never going to make it against an easily mass produced disk, however technically inferior the disk might be.

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50 minutes ago, v1nn1e said:

It is interesting how certain technologies at a certain point in time capture the imagination and emotions, rather like steam engines for instance. And flat vinyl records seem to be the same.

1362018_orig.jpg

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5 hours ago, Muckplaster said:

Blimey your wife is old. :O)

No she is now 63 years old  surely she cannot be classed as old until she is eligible to receive her National Insurance Pension? .. but I guess it is a thing about the younger generation to have no respect and to not actually think before they speak.   All I know is I could send her out to buy new anything in my system and I would be happy with what she chose.  After all it was her that told me we had to buy these .. if you can find a woman with that kind of appreciation of hifi and that sound and looks may not necessarily go together however old she is I would suggest you snap her up .. she might teach you a thing or two (about hifi) 

IMG_20180322_125713019_HDR[1].jpg

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Tracking down the best mastering to buy as opposed to picking the latest remaster off the shelf is essential. Swapping from a poorly mastered release to a good one can be as big an upgrade as changing a major component in your system.

A search of the Steve Hoffman forums is a good place to start.

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3 hours ago, uzzy said:

All I know is I could send her out to buy new anything in my system and I would be happy with what she chose.  After all it was her that told me we had to buy these .. if you can find a woman with that kind of appreciation of hifi and that sound and looks may not necessarily go together however old she is I would suggest you snap her up .. she might teach you a thing or two (about hifi) 

You've got a winner there uzzy 

Listening to my Technics SL1200G with Project RS phono box into my Pathos amp I am just enjoying the music so much. God knows I've listened to professional DACs from DCS & Apogee to Prism & Pacific Microsonics, various CD players and consumer DACs. I don't know why they don't engage me like what I'm hearing now. Do I really need measurements to reason why I prefer it? The fact that we even like something called 'music' perhaps defies 'logic'

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