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Mud_shark

Newbie asks... why no gapless playback?

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I have recently purchased a Primare SC15 pre/network player/Dac, but I have a problem with it concerning gapless playback!

The problem occurs when I play files from my Synology NAS over wired ethernet connection. At the end of each track there is a noticeable pause and an audible click before the next track plays. I can live with this to certain extent, but not when I am listening to a classical piece with a continuous flow through the movements.

Previously I have used a Cyrus stream x2 (which incidentally, I still possess) with no problems. I have since read customer reviews on other network players/streamers  where this has been a concern, most notably the Arcam rPlay. Researching reviews of various players, via web and HiFi publications, I have found no mention by the professional reviewer as to whether NAS playback is gapless or otherwise. My experience has me concerned. Am I missing something? My Cyrus (wired back into use today) still plays gapless.

I am interested in the Pro-ject Stream Box S2 Ultra for a second NAS based system. How should I know that it will play gapless or not?

Any helpful comments would be much appreciated. :)

Edited by Mud_shark

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Moderator

What a very good question, I take it the Cyrus is accessing the same NAS ? How do you control the playback from an app ?   If so the Primare and the Cyrus app may/must be playing a part in the gapless playback.

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1 hour ago, Mud_shark said:

I have recently purchased a Primare SC15 pre/network player/Dac, but I have a problem with it concerning gapless playback!

The problem occurs when I play files from my Synology NAS over wired ethernet connection. At the end of each track there is a noticeable pause and an audible click before the next track plays. I can live with this to certain extent, but not when I am listening to a classical piece with a continuous flow through the movements.

Previously I have used a Cyrus stream x2 (which incidentally, I still possess) with no problems. I have since read customer reviews on other network players/streamers  where this has been a concern, most notably the Arcam rPlay. Researching reviews of various players, via web and HiFi publications, I have found no mention by the professional reviewer as to whether NAS playback is gapless or otherwise. My experience has me concerned. Am I missing something? My Cyrus (wired back into use today) still plays gapless.

I am interested in the Pro-ject Stream Box S2 Ultra for a second NAS based system. How should I know that it will play gapless or not?

Any helpful comments would be much appreciated. :)

Is there an option for increasing the buffer time?

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Super Wammer

Gapless via Upnp is a mess, and seemingly many manufacturers can't get it right. For example, my Pioneer will play gapless if it fetches the music, but if you push the music to it then it isn't gapless :doh:

Gapless involves the player asking for some data from the next track ahead of time, if the player doesn't do that then it won't play gapless.

This is the problem with IT developers who only listen to pop albums and playlists. (I'm an IT bloke, and it pisses me off :D )

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1 hour ago, Bazzer said:

What a very good question, I take it the Cyrus is accessing the same NAS ? How do you control the playback from an app ?   If so the Primare and the Cyrus app may/must be playing a part in the gapless playback.

Yep, both were connected to my Synology Nas on the same wired network. The Cyrus sang successfully for a number of years until the recent purchase of the Primare SC15, which I believed to be a cost effective upgrade (higher spec playback) and also reducing my box count. The Cyrus acted the same, whether used via the Cadence app, the N remote, or via the manual controls on the unit. In fact, the Cyrus is an easy to use, faultlessly smooth operator, it"s only down fall being it's capabilities (24/192 res). 

I did wonder whether or not it was an app issue (Prisma) or even a media server (compatibility) issue on the NAS. I tried other media server apps on the NAS, but other than prolonged reindexing, didn't achieve much. I use Jriver MC21 on my mac and that plays, as one would expect, faultlessly (gapless) via USB on both players. 

19 minutes ago, tuga said:

Is there an option for increasing the buffer time?

Nope, the Primare app is pants as far as settings go!

12 minutes ago, bigfool1956 said:

Gapless via Upnp is a mess, and seemingly many manufacturers can't get it right. For example, my Pioneer will play gapless if it fetches the music, but if you push the music to it then it isn't gapless :doh:

Gapless involves the player asking for some data from the next track ahead of time, if the player doesn't do that then it won't play gapless.

This is the problem with IT developers who only listen to pop albums and playlists. (I'm an IT bloke, and it pisses me off :D )

You have confirmed my suspicions. 

...and therefore I ask, how do we (users) know which players are capable of gapless playback? Surely professional reviewers should make a point of informing their readers, instead of just crowing about how good or bad it sounds or bleating on about it"s hi spec at a bargain several hundred squid or more?!!

Edited by Mud_shark

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Super Wammer

I found this on the web:

https://www.primare.net/2018/06/01/the-latest-new-product-news-june-2018/

looks like you have to use their app, although I don't know if the gapless has been implemented yet.

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Thanx for that Bigfool1956, I missed that one! Is your handle a typo?:D

But surely you wouldn't release a product until it"s fully operational, unless you're Musical Fidelity?

14 minutes ago, bigfool1956 said:

I found this on the web:

https://www.primare.net/2018/06/01/the-latest-new-product-news-june-2018/

looks like you have to use their app, although I don't know if the gapless has been implemented yet.

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Super Wammer
9 hours ago, Mud_shark said:

Thanx for that Bigfool1956, I missed that one! Is your handle a typo?:D

But surely you wouldn't release a product until it"s fully operational, unless you're Musical Fidelity?

It’s very disappointing, but I believe KEF did the same with the LS50 wireless. It’s such a fundamental flaw, I agree no product should be released in that state.  I hope otherwise it’s a good product as I’m a user and admirer of Primare. 

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6 hours ago, Nopiano said:

It’s very disappointing, but I believe KEF did the same with the LS50 wireless. It’s such a fundamental flaw, I agree no product should be released in that state.  I hope otherwise it’s a good product as I’m a user and admirer of Primare. 

...and frustrating!     But, with thanx to bigfool for the headsup, I have been in touch with Primare via email to enquire about future updates.

The reason I opted for Primare was on the back of recommendations and hearing a friends system a while back. Other than this glitch (I hope it's just a glitch), build quality is excellent and I am loving how it sounds, although I'm still 'burning' it in. 

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On 03/02/2019 at 10:54, Nopiano said:

... I agree no product should be released in that state.  

In fairness to Primare, I feel I must post this quick response I received from them early on Monday.

"Keith, gapless is on the list for the next update, but I cannot say exactly when that will be released, as there are a number of other items to be included, and then submitted for approval by the various license holders (Apple, Google, Spotify, etc.), which adds another variable outside of our control. We will do our best to get it out as soon as we possibly can, Terry"

...But, I still cannot get my head round the fact that a company can release for sale a product that they say, "...continues to deliver astonishing performance..." , but clearly does not? I await the "next update". :whistle:

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Super Wammer

Yes, all the manufacturers with any digital or cinema functionality seem to need all this guff certified first.  Makes me hanker for proper analogue amplifiers after all!

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