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Chasing system accuracy... Is there a point?

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Start down the personal abuse track in a two-channel thread and it won't be staying young anyone will need to be concerned about, it'll be enjoying continued posting rights.

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Moderator

To return to the topic, the issue is the difference between the accurate reproduction of a live performance and the accurate reproduction of a recording.

My preference is to try and get as much as possible of the former, although I appreciate it may well be at the 'expense' of the latter.

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Just now, rabski said:

To return to the topic, the issue is the difference between the accurate reproduction of a live performance and the accurate reproduction of a recording.

My preference is to try and get as much as possible of the former, although I appreciate it may well be at the 'expense' of the latter.

At bake-offs I like to pee in a plastic glass and then throw it over other attendees heads towards the turntable...just for that 'live' feeling (if you go to the same sort of gigs that I do).

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5 minutes ago, savvypaul said:

At bake-offs I like to pee in a plastic glass and then throw it over other attendees heads towards the turntable...just for that 'live' feeling (if you go to the same sort of gigs that I do).

I had a feeling that you might be into Golden Showers ! :D

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Just now, Electro said:

I had a feeling that you might be into Golden Showers ! :D

Calm down...

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13 hours ago, Camverton said:

Go to an orchestral concert and it will be your eyes, not your ears, that locate precisely where each instrument is. Of course artificial imaging of a recording helps to compensate for not seeing the performers in front of us.

Do we have any input from blind listeners?  I would be curious.  At some, admittedly chamber, concerts I have shut my eyes and still been able to place the performers.  But of course I saw where they were beforehand.

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Super Dealer
43 minutes ago, BeeRay said:

Is it? Some speakers rely on boundaries to increase the bass. Some speakers are designed to be use in normal living rooms. It is also almost impossible in most living rooms to achieve and would be very expensive. How would you deal with windows, tables, tvs etc.? 

Placing the loudspeaker into a room will affect its frequency response, that will vary according to the size and construction of the room.

I would have thought most loudspeakers are used in ‘ normal’ rooms I am not sure  many traditional loudspeaker designers spend much time considering  how the speaker will react with the room.

Acoustic measurement will reveal all, I would recommend everyone acoustically measure their room.

Keith

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Super Dealer

With traditional passives there are no adjustments possible, the only option is to shuffle the speaker either closer to nearer to the rear wall in an attempt at cancellation.

The designer can ensure the speaker has a nice flat FR, smooth and even off-axis etc but that’s it .

Keith

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7 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

With traditional passives there are no adjustments possible, the only option is to shuffle the speaker either closer to nearer to the rear wall in an attempt at cancellation.

The designer can ensure the speaker has a nice flat FR, smooth and even off-axis etc but that’s it .

Keith

So are you saying all actives can be adjusted? If so how?

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Super Dealer

Not all actives, older designs ATCs for example have no adjustment, newer designs have boundary filters and treble/bass cut/boost 

In the latest designs almost every parameter is adjustable.

Toole on active versus passive,

Those professional loudspeakers with dedicated electronics have a huge advantage over passive loudspeakers. Consumers in general, especially high-end audiophiles, have not caught up with the advantages that technology has to offer. Good loudspeakers and amplifiers can deliver good sound, but merging them with dedicated digital crossovers, equalizers and amplifiers designed for those specific loudspeaker components, in that specific enclosure, can yield even better sound».
Source: Chapter 12.5 in Toole (2016)

Keith

Edited by PuritéAudio

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36 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

With traditional passives there are no adjustments possible, the only option is to shuffle the speaker either closer to nearer to the rear wall in an attempt at cancellation.

The designer can ensure the speaker has a nice flat FR, smooth and even off-axis etc but that’s it .

Keith

Not completely true!  Mine has treble boost and cut

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55 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

With traditional passives there are no adjustments possible, the only option is to shuffle the speaker either closer to nearer to the rear wall in an attempt at cancellation.

The designer can ensure the speaker has a nice flat FR, smooth and even off-axis etc but that’s it .

No it's not. You can adjust/correct passives using software (i.e. Dirac, Acourate, etc.) or hardware (i.e. RoomPerfect, Anti-Mode, etc.)...

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49 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

Not all actives, older designs ATCs for example have no adjustment, newer designs have boundary filters and treble/bass cut/boost 

In the latest designs almost every parameter is adjustable.

Toole on active versus passive,

Those professional loudspeakers with dedicated electronics have a huge advantage over passive loudspeakers. Consumers in general, especially high-end audiophiles, have not caught up with the advantages that technology has to offer. Good loudspeakers and amplifiers can deliver good sound, but merging them with dedicated digital crossovers, equalizers and amplifiers designed for those specific loudspeaker components, in that specific enclosure, can yield even better sound».
Source: Chapter 12.5 in Toole (2016)

Keith

I see but in most systems you can use an equalizer? 

Yes some actives have a very basic treble/bass adjustment such as AE. My AR4xa over 45 years ago had a similar arrangement.

Edited by BeeRay

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5 minutes ago, tuga said:

No it's not. You can adjust/correct passives using software (i.e. Dirac, Acourate, etc.) or hardware (i.e. RoomPerfect, Anti-Mode, etc.)...

Exactly. Arguably better than including it built into the speaker from the point of view of future proofing and if the manufacturer goes out of business. To be fair not all the 8Cs attributes can be fully replicated in software but careful, perhaps, over use of Dirac can get close.

This business about all we have is the recording so that is our only reference is simply not true for some lucky classical listeners. Attend one of the concerts the BBC broadcasts from the Wigmore Hall, record or listen to the Saturday repeat and then decide which approach to reproduction best evokes the emotion and experience of being at the concert; job done!

i am fairly certain that there won’t be agreement on which type of speaker works best, as we all listen in a different way to a live concert, but the original performance is a valid reference. Of course we are still at the mercy of the recording engineer, but choice of speaker system is all about working with the whole process to get the best recreation of the original performance.

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