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DAC is important, but does the digital source matter?

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Super Wammer
1 minute ago, PuritéAudio said:

You know how I feel regarding ignited comparisons.

Keith

You mean they make the equipment¬†sound all lit up?¬†ūüĒ•¬†

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1 hour ago, PuritéAudio said:

Without wishing to doubt you can you post the link.

Keith

Well there are lots of posts about RF and Chord DACs here is one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-245

Now the Dave is their most expensive DAC which Rob Watts has done a lot of work to reduce RF. In another posts he says these devices are sensitive to RF, often through a USB cable, he even suggests using ferrites on the cable to one user, wonder where I have heard that before :)

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Super Dealer

That is disappointing, not dissimilar to the Mytek designer stating that his DACs sounded better with an aftermarket linear power supply.

Keith

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IIRC there was hardly any mention of RF problems with the DAVE. 

This is what Rob Watts said;

‚ÄúThe mains, and the outputs are RF filtered too. On the USB, we have galvanic isolation, but that will not completely isolate Dave from the source, as it has 2pF of coupling capacitance on the galvanic isolation (all isolators have some level of coupling capacitance).‚ÄĚ

Nothing was ever mentioned about DAVE (or any other Chord DAC)  being more susceptible to RF.

It wasn‚Äôt until the Blu MKII was released that RF suddenly became a ‚Äúmajor‚ÄĚ issue and this was attributed to the upscaler inside the Blu MKII. Hence one hundred pages of talk about ferrites on Head-Fi.¬†

The few times I have heard the DAVE/Blu MKII combination I can’t say I could identify a problem with it being to harsh or having false detail. Honestly even if there was a measurable difference caused by RF I would expect it to swamped by distortion from elsewhere in the system.

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Super Wammer

If RF is a problem with cables,  it begs the question why don't dac manufacturers,  offer only optical connections. :nerves:

I do understand it has limited bandwidth, but that is only for multi channel use, as I understand it, not stereo.

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Moderator
17 minutes ago, greybeard said:

If RF is a problem with cables,  it begs the question why don't dac manufacturers,  offer only optical connections. :nerves:

I do understand it has limited bandwidth, but that is only for multi channel use, as I understand it, not stereo.

There's not an inherent bandwidth limitation of optical connections in general (at least, not as far as the bandwidths needed for audio are concerned!) - although it seems to be an issue with the specific implementation(s) decided upon for the TOSLINK spec. Wiki suggests the original TOSLINK spec was limited to 3.1Mbit/s, but is now 125 Mbit/s. Pretty pedestrian compared to the bandwidths available with optical fibre used in data comms (typically tens/hundreds of Gigabits/sec).

Edited by Tony_J
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The thread is DAC and sources. I regret my post suggesting that to some persons cables can make a difference. I appolgise for giving an opportunity for the thread to be highjacked into RFI/Cable discssion and promotional opening.

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3 hours ago, bandit pilot said:

:pop: 

This is shaping up into yet another bullshill thread, but have no fear, as the bin is huge and the holiday hammer polished.:D

Yep, here we go again and Im unsubscribing myself before it even starts. By the way how long has this been happening on the Wam?

But I am definitely out of this one :)   

But just before I go a 0 is definitely a 0 and a 1 is a 1. But enjoy the thread all wherever it goes.

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2 minutes ago, Croma said:

The thread is DAC and sources. I regret my post suggesting that to some persons cables can make a difference. I appolgise for giving an opportunity for the thread to be highjacked into RFI/Cable discssion and promotional opening.

Ah come on guys. No need to make things personal. I am finding this interesting and didn't find anything overtly promotional at all...

Thanks all for sharing your diverse opinions and experiences.

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Yep, here we go again and Im unsubscribing myself before it even starts. By the way how long has this been happening on the Wam?
But I am definitely out of this one   
But just before I go a 0 is definitely a 0 and a 1 is a 1. But enjoy the thread all wherever it goes.


I have designed a gadget that turns 3.2% of your 0s into 1s. Improves the sound no end.

I did wonder whether to experiment with turning a similar ratio of 1s into 0s, but then I realised that would be ridiculous.
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Super Wammer
40 minutes ago, greybeard said:

If RF is a problem with cables,  it begs the question why don't dac manufacturers,  offer only optical connections. :nerves:

I do understand it has limited bandwidth, but that is only for multi channel use, as I understand it, not stereo.

If you talk to Innuos then they will say there is unfortunately more to it than just this. For instance the converter needed in the dac for an optical signal to be converted can itself introduce noise. 

Also, as you say, optical cannot cope with some of the higher sampling signals. 

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3 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

If you talk to Innuos then they will say there is unfortunately more to it than just this. For instance the converter needed in the dac for an optical signal to be converted can itself introduce noise. 

Also, as you say, optical cannot cope with some of the higher sampling signals. 

Optical can cope with it, no problem at all (see my post earlier). TOSLINK perhaps not, but that needn't be the only solution. 

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11 minutes ago, Beobloke said:


I have designed a gadget that turns 3.2% of your 0s into 1s. Improves the sound no end.

I did wonder whether to experiment with turning a similar ratio of 1s into 0s, but then I realised that would be ridiculous.

I'm still unsubscribed but I've been quoted, so. Yes sometimes those noughts can look a little bit like ones from a distance depending on your mood or if you've had too much to drink, but machines do neither and they have no human attributes they just see noughts and ones, there's no discrimination. It's just down to your lovely DAC which doesn't discriminate either, thankfully that's a machine as well, we just get the analogue crap out of it that our ears hear and enjoy (sometimes that is and if its a good DAC :) ).

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1 hour ago, PuritéAudio said:

That is disappointing, not dissimilar to the Mytek designer stating that his DACs sounded better with an aftermarket linear power supply.

Keith

A lot of high performance electronic equipment will nonetheless benefit from a better power supply.

Equipment is built to a price point.

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Super Wammer
17 minutes ago, Tony_J said:

Optical can cope with it, no problem at all (see my post earlier). TOSLINK perhaps not, but that needn't be the only solution. 

Yes and of course it is used for high speed data transfer over considerable distances but as you say it is the protocols available to audio which are the issue and which cannot support the higher transfer rates. In particular it cannot support the 768khz dual data transfer from the Chord mscalers. 

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