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Super Wammer
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Blackmetalboon said:

I have lots of kit that uses a “standard kettle lead” and guess what, they all have SMPS.

You've obviously spent some time on this, as I don't know what the PSU's are inside my kettle-lead-connected kit. What's the easiest way of telling, for the non-PSU obsessed?

Edited by TheFlash

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2 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

Aha, that's why I don't like Chord kit!

Which audiophile myth are you talking about? The one put about by those in the trade who find it inconvenient to accept that SMPS can be noisy as well as cheap and flexible?

Will that be the "objective data confirmed by multiple sources" you have insisted upon before buying absolutely every piece of kit in your current setup? Or are you setting the bar higher for PSU's due to expectation bias? Does "multiple sources" include your own unreliable ears?

Anyway, must dash, I have some paint drying and it's really much more interesting.

As I thought, nothing of any substance to your claims. Is it difficult to understand that there can be poorly designed versions of both power supplies? 

I have owned kit that received positive reviews, both subjectively & objectively, that have had power supplies from both camps. I have never had a problem with mixing and matching those pieces of kit, in fact I used a mixture of those for over a decade. 

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt that the “your own unreliable ears” part of you reply wasn’t a slight dig. I hope that we’re above that sort of nonsense.

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Super Wammer
44 minutes ago, Blackmetalboon said:

As I thought, nothing of any substance to your claims. Is it difficult to understand that there can be poorly designed versions of both power supplies? 

I have owned kit that received positive reviews, both subjectively & objectively, that have had power supplies from both camps. I have never had a problem with mixing and matching those pieces of kit, in fact I used a mixture of those for over a decade. 

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt that the “your own unreliable ears” part of you reply wasn’t a slight dig. I hope that we’re above that sort of nonsense.

Of course there can be badly designed versions of both, but I'm not talking about badly designed, I'm talking about fundamental design principles.

You didn't answer my Q: how can the layman tell whether the PSU inside his device is switched or not?

That's generous of you. It was a dig, but at all of our ears, not yours; they're unreliable but they're all we have. It would appear that you've used yours, which is cool, rather than not feeling the need to do so because it's "obvious" what you would or would not hear. Some people do the latter and it becomes tiresome; most notably those who claim others have an agenda whilst not acknowledging their own.

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Super Wammer
2 hours ago, TheFlash said:

Which DACs and who says so? The manufacturers!

Some SMPS are less noisy than some linear power supplies. 

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Super Wammer
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

Some SMPS are less noisy than some linear power supplies. 

Some linear power supplies are less noisy than some SMPS.

That's clear then!

Edited by TheFlash

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Super Wammer
Just now, TheFlash said:

Some linear power supplies are less nosiy than some SMPS.

That's clear then.

Bien sur, Hercule!

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22 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

You didn't answer my Q: how can the layman tell whether the PSU inside his device is switched or not?

From the manufacturer, reviews, pictures on the internet. If in doubt, probably best to check the manufacturers website or contact them directly. While not always the case, weight and size of the equipment can be an indication as can the specified operating voltage/frequency (this would generally be specified on the equipment or manual).

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Well after following my original post, I would like to thank you for your help even if it has become a healthy debate.

Firstly as a newbie im now on WiFi instead of Bluetooth, 🙄.

Also as someone else mentioned power supplies plugged in and not used, I unplugged my Dino phono (which has their standard power supoly. And low and behold it made a huge difference.

Now is this why they do uograded power supplies? If it affects other items on the mains line, I can only assume it must make a difference to the equipment it is powering.

At this stage I'm happy but am now wondering even more if the upgrade power supply in the oppo would be a great step forward.

That remains to be seen maybe later this year, but ATM I'm happy with the free tweeks achieved with your help.

Many thanks folks 🤩

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Super Wammer
12 hours ago, Trouble and strife said:

Well after following my original post, I would like to thank you for your help even if it has become a healthy debate.

Firstly as a newbie im now on WiFi instead of Bluetooth, 🙄.

Also as someone else mentioned power supplies plugged in and not used, I unplugged my Dino phono (which has their standard power supoly. And low and behold it made a huge difference.

Now is this why they do uograded power supplies? If it affects other items on the mains line, I can only assume it must make a difference to the equipment it is powering.

At this stage I'm happy but am now wondering even more if the upgrade power supply in the oppo would be a great step forward.

That remains to be seen maybe later this year, but ATM I'm happy with the free tweeks achieved with your help.

Many thanks folks 🤩

WiFi not Bluetooth: you're the man!

Dino PSU: excellent. Bizarrely the device being powered may or may not be more affected than other devices. Keith would argue any affected devices must be badly designed, I would humbly, respectfully but persistently disagree.

Oppo PSU: I wouldn't bother myself, unless it has a wall wart plugged in at the wall, I've generally not gone inside the box to mess.

If your wall sockets/extension cables are now wall-wart free then I'd sit back and enjoy the music.

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Super Wammer

I found a test online where the iFi iPower was pitted against a number of well regarded linear supplies and also a battery supply, and it bested all of them. When I had Nick's noise sniffer here I also verified that the iFi added no extra noise to my mains that I could tell. I have to qualify this by saying that my mains is horribly noisy, but I couldn't find any increase above the hash that already exists.

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On 06/01/2019 at 16:06, TheFlash said:

Greybeard looks confused but this is often precisely the rationale. SMPS can introduce noise into the mains which is picked up by audio equipment which might not be plugged into it.

The snake oil is strong in this one.

Careful one should be

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Super Wammer
4 hours ago, Bokke said:

Good argument. They have an agenda of course, but their approach does make sense. It would be unwise to extrapolate their specific findings to all power supplies by type.

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Super Dealer
On 06/01/2019 at 17:35, TheFlash said:

It's not to do with poor design of the kit, it's to do with poor design of the switched mode PSU's.

You sell a good range of kit, Keith. How many items on the books? 100? How many use electricity? How many use switched (wall wart) PSU's? How many use a standard kettle lead with internal PSU?

Benchmark’s ‘agenda’ is solid engineering.

Keith

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Super Wammer
46 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

Benchmark’s ‘agenda’ is solid engineering.

Keith

Their paper is well-argued and makes the case convincingly, so I don't doubt it. But let me clear why I'm making that "agenda" point: if I shared a similarly well-written paper by someone who made and sold aftermarket linear PSU's, I'd quite rightly expect you and others to point out their agenda ("they would say that wouldn't they", etc) exactly like you would if I shared an article by a cable manufacturer setting out their case for using unobtainium.

Having an agenda doesn't invaliate the point someone makes but it is useful to be aware of it lest we mistake such claims for objective, independent, peer-reviewed science.

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