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PuritéAudio

Computer ‘transports’ can they make a difference?

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14 minutes ago, Blackmetalboon said:

So placing a doorstop on a Schiit DAC improves its performance! I wonder if placing a Schiit DAC on a doorstop helps improve the doorstop? This is the real question that needs to be answered.

Ha, ha!  Saying something made a good doorstop used to be a terrific putdown!   Not one I’ve read for a while.

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16 minutes ago, Blackmetalboon said:

So placing a doorstop on a Schiit DAC improves its performance! I wonder if placing a Schiit DAC on a doorstop helps improve the doorstop? This is the real question that needs to be answered.

Mustn't...make...joke...about a Schitt on your own doorstop. :minikev:

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On 19/12/2018 at 21:53, Fourlegs said:

Uzzy, I keep explaining, the issues are related to RF noise which piggy backs down the digital cable where it eventually gets into the analogue stage of the DAC causing intermodulation distortion of the analogue signal. Typically this manifests as a slight harshness in the upper register, something that might previously have been callled digital glare. 

Although people might think that a well designed dac should filter this out they mostly are not capable of doing this properly even if they incorporate filters and isolation. Better is therefore to design sources to have minimal RF noise. Much of it is generated by power supplies. The discussion in this thread is servers however your CD player may not be immune and may chuck out RF noise. 

Through all this the ones and zeros are unchanged. 

Thanks Fourlegs   .. the theory makes sense.

I was trying to fathom out though how a device passing digits to a DAC affected noise - what you are saying is that RF may be passed down the line to the DAC but surely the DAC would only read the 1s and 0s so for RF to pass through the DAC to the analogue output then surely all DACs that had an RF filter fitted on the input stage would overcome this problem.  As this would make a DAC sound far better (well if there is RF and it is removed it would sound far better yes?)

Anyway it would seem the answer for anyone is to devise a means of removing RF from the digital cable link from the transport to the DAC or have I got that wrong?  If that is the case then surely it is a simple matter to fit RF filters in the signal path.

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Super Wammer
7 hours ago, uzzy said:

Thanks Fourlegs   .. the theory makes sense.

I was trying to fathom out though how a device passing digits to a DAC affected noise - what you are saying is that RF may be passed down the line to the DAC but surely the DAC would only read the 1s and 0s so for RF to pass through the DAC to the analogue output then surely all DACs that had an RF filter fitted on the input stage would overcome this problem.  As this would make a DAC sound far better (well if there is RF and it is removed it would sound far better yes?)

Anyway it would seem the answer for anyone is to devise a means of removing RF from the digital cable link from the transport to the DAC or have I got that wrong?  If that is the case then surely it is a simple matter to fit RF filters in the signal path.

Dacs do mostly have RF filtering on the input but testing has shown that some rf can leapfrog over the filters on the pc board.

The RF noise in the dac cable is common mode noise and therefore ferrites are the classic way of filtering the common mode rf noise. Clip on ferrites of the correct frequency band are an easy diy option. 

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Super Wammer

The title of the thread asked about differences in digital ‘transports’ and I have tried to explain how this can be. 

This will not drive you to depressed misery any more than other areas HiFi which have the capacity for refinement and improvement. 

I see you have an rPi and you could inverstigate the add on boards which seek to isolate the noise.

Edited by Fourlegs
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4

I could and I have tried different boards, power units and outputs. But not to investigate the noise YOU concern youself over. The rPi is sensitive enough to detect the differences in versions/recordings. So much so it could put me off some music like turntable tweaking did when I gave up faffing with scratchy music. That was full of noise.

I found a dealer once wanted to convince me I needed to change my USB cable (because of the power line involved making noise). He failed to find out what my DAC was and if it had galvanic isolation. It also had various slope effects and cost around £2k. Fuse went a few weeks ago and maker no longer offers support or repairs.

You cannot repair an April Music Eximus DAC can you, collect and return?

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Just for balance, the purpose of the doorstop was to keep a relatively lightweight component like a DAC with off board transformer stationary with heavy or tortioned cables plugged into the back. The doorstop was chosen because it was heavy and not completely ugly.

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4 hours ago, Cable Monkey said:

Just for balance, the purpose of the doorstop was to keep a relatively lightweight component like a DAC with off board transformer stationary with heavy or tortioned cables plugged into the back. The doorstop was chosen because it was heavy and not completely ugly.

I think that is a secondary benefit. The reason Mr Darko suggested it originally was that it slightly improved the sound (by eliminating micro vibration), and then when people asked him what it was he realised it looked quite cool too!  

Edited by Nopiano
Typo
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To answer the question, "yes they 'can' make a difference, but usually not unless you've chosen a dac with poor input noise rejection on its inputs".   

Fitting the best power supply you can muster to the analogue and digital stages in the dac, yup that's likely to be a sound investment unless you're at the cutting edge.

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Super Wammer
54 minutes ago, sq225917 said:

To answer the question, "yes they 'can' make a difference, but usually not unless you've chosen a dac with poor input noise rejection on its inputs".   

Fitting the best power supply you can muster to the analogue and digital stages in the dac, yup that's likely to be a sound investment unless you're at the cutting edge.

And so how have you personally chose a dac which you think has good noise rejection on its inputs? 

Also, what parameters do you personally use to choose a good power supply? Are you aware that many linear power supplies are worse than smps for noise?

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Super Dealer

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Super Wammer

Ok, thanks. So if for instance I look at the RME ADI-2 dac on those tests, which of those measurements were you thinking of to evaluate noise rejection or filtering on it’s inputs?

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On 20/12/2018 at 07:06, PuritéAudio said:

Complete and utter marketing bullshit, as usual, if the dac is susceptible to r/f then it is an extremely poor design.

You repeat the marketing puff but there are never any corroborative  measurements.

Keith

Aren't you the guy who sells Intona products?

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On 20/12/2018 at 22:29, Nopiano said:

Funnily enough I saw this a week or so back, and there are several products available from Amazon and eBay, and doubtless in a hardware shop near you!  For example:- H&S Door Stop Stopper Heavy Duty Weight Stainless Steel Doorstop Bumper Rubber Buffer Ring - Dome https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01K0YPWEY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_4zbhCbADTMMHW

Over in the Linn club section here, there is a quite a following for Ikea Gunstig cut up and placed under components for isolation purposes.  At least they’re cheap!  https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/cookware/cooking-accessories/ikea-365-gunstig-pot-stand-magnetic-red-dark-grey-art-50175276/

Why would you have a magnetic field under an electronic component? It might change the sound/performance but...

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