Andywilliams

Where's your sofa

Recommended Posts

Super Wammer
18 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

But you can make them work, it would be simplicity itself to make a little filter to reduce the 32Hz room mode.

Thismight be useful to help you determine the cause of the massive cancellation centered around 50Hz.

http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/CancellationMode.htm

Yeah, my room is 17' long, which accounts for the ~32Hz mode, and 12' wide which I guess could account for the ~50Hz dip....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Dealer

Might be did you try taking a measurement away from the middle line of the room?

I would expect there to be high pressure along the walls and perhaps a cancellation of the room, but not at 50Hz.

https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=700&w=450&h=285&r60=0.6

Have you tried this?

Keith

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

Not sure if I have just wasted a lot of money as have just purchased a Naim Nova and am in the process of looking at speakers to upgrade my Quad 22ls as they have a bloated bass. But my hifi is at one end of the room and I sit on my sofa which is against the wall the other end. After reading this thread I am not sure if I will get the sound I am looking for. I was very close to buying some Kef R3's but they are rear ported & can't really have them anymore than 10inch from the rear wall so I assume that will only add to the issue as the Quads are rear ported to.I can't move the sofa away from the wall as this would block the door.Would sealed or front ported speakers help?.

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Dealer

The position of the port doesn’t really make any difference, you can have any speakers you like and place them where you like but you may need to EQ any room mode based peaks.

EQ is available in software ROON/JRiver, in DACs RME for example and in loudspeakers themselves.

Keith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
1 hour ago, mikebh50 said:

Hi

Not sure if I have just wasted a lot of money as have just purchased a Naim Nova and am in the process of looking at speakers to upgrade my Quad 22ls as they have a bloated bass. But my hifi is at one end of the room and I sit on my sofa which is against the wall the other end. After reading this thread I am not sure if I will get the sound I am looking for. I was very close to buying some Kef R3's but they are rear ported & can't really have them anymore than 10inch from the rear wall so I assume that will only add to the issue as the Quads are rear ported to.I can't move the sofa away from the wall as this would block the door.Would sealed or front ported speakers help?.

Mike

For no cost, Mike, you could try sitting away from your rear wall.  Just plonk a chair in front of your sofa. Does the bloating reduce?

I think the rear port thing is a bit overstated.  If it were such an issue then many speakers would be designed differently - though tiny ones have insufficient room on the front baffle.  In practice, all speakers produce bass at equal level/volume in all directions. Only at the higher frequencies do they start to beam forwards.  Therefore the distance from the wall needs careful listening, unless you measure as Keith suggests. 

Ive heard the Naim Unitilite sound great with KEF LS50, but not the newer Nova. And I’ve not set eyes on the R series yet!  In any case, you should insist on a home demonstration.   Sealed speakers are rare these days, but ATC make some fine ones. These are the same price as the KEFs, though there are fewer dealers.  

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm11/

Edited by Nopiano

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi

will have a listen tonite..

would an acoustic panel above the sofa help or would that be a waste of time. Also assuming you can get something that is wife friendly.

Edited by mikebh50

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/12/2018 at 14:04, Nopiano said:

For no cost, Mike, you could try sitting away from your rear wall.  Just plonk a chair in front of your sofa. Does the bloating reduce?

I think the rear port thing is a bit overstated.  If it were such an issue then many speakers would be designed differently - though tiny ones have insufficient room on the front baffle.  In practice, all speakers produce bass at equal level/volume in all directions. Only at the higher frequencies do they start to beam forwards.  Therefore the distance from the wall needs careful listening, unless you measure as Keith suggests. 

Ive heard the Naim Unitilite sound great with KEF LS50, but not the newer Nova. And I’ve not set eyes on the R series yet!  In any case, you should insist on a home demonstration.   Sealed speakers are rare these days, but ATC make some fine ones. These are the same price as the KEFs, though there are fewer dealers.  

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm11/

Hi

have tried sitting in front of the sofa and yes the bloating does reduce but can I assume a speaker that has more control over the bass could or would react differently. Also depends on what you are listening to. 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Dealer

Speaker control  won’t make much difference , unless the bass extension  of that speaker doesn’t extend enough to set off that particular mode.

Keith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
22 minutes ago, mikebh50 said:

Hi

have tried sitting in front of the sofa and yes the bloating does reduce but can I assume a speaker that has more control over the bass could or would react differently. Also depends on what you are listening to. 

Mike

I don’t claim any special expertise, Mike, but a couple of things are potentially going on. One is that sitting near a rear wall is emphasising the bass.  The other is that many speakers sound best with more than ten inches clearance from the wall.

You’ve proven the first to yourself, and yes it will depend on whether the frequencies that are emphasised are contained in a particular track.  So, an option is to sit in front for critical listening. 

Regarding speaker placement, you may simply have to try a few alternatives. As well as the ATCs I mentioned above, the Neat Iota Xplorer might be an option. This reviewer used them 275mm from the wall, which is near enough ten inches!

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/neat-acoustics-iota-xplorer-floorstanding-loudspeaker/

PS.  I meant to show you the Alphas. These are in your price range, the Xplorer is a silly £3,500. 

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/neat-acoustics-iota-alpha-floorstanding-loudspeaker/?page=2

Edited by Nopiano

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

Speaker control  won’t make much difference , unless the bass extension  of that speaker doesn’t extend enough to set off that particular mode.

Keith

Well this is what I am hoping I want less more controled bass which I hope might help the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Dealer

The bass is bloated not  because of the speaker, it is the speaker’s interaction with the room, traditionally to eradicate the ‘boom’ one chose a speaker with less bass extension.

But you can use a full range loudspeaker in your room, you just need to reduce the energy of the particular frequency that is causing the room mode.

The first step is to acoustically measure using REW software this will show you exactly what is going on.

Keith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 01/12/2018 at 13:54, Nopiano said:

I don’t normally recommend what I own, but as you like ATCs the obvious step up is to SCM40s. They’ll pretty much have the same footprint and with sealed boxes (and the attendant bass roll off) are less likely to cause unwanted problems than the PMCs you’ve tried. 

Any dealer will let you try them at home if you’re buying new, and mine did likewise with used as 

Hi Mike I didn't get any problems with the atc scm 11s as regards boom very controlled it was the bigger floorstanders I had trouble with. Now with my speakers 3ft from the back wall and spaced further apart it's even better if you look on you tube there's a lot of info on speakers and room problems I have a bit more understanding now how important it is to place your speakers correctly before my speakers where equal distance from both the side wall and wall behind the speakers the worst position I could have possibly chosen I've also ordered some bass traps for the wall behind my sofa they look quite good and with my sofa being very deep if I put a couple of pillows behind my seating position it brings me quite a bit forwards from the back wall so all isn't lost iam sure you will find away to sorting it out. As regards room equalisation i would need somebody to do it for me has iam old and not able to make sense of all the graphs and microphones lol would love to try it though with a decent floorstanding speaker in my room. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 18/12/2018 at 22:42, Nopiano said:

Regarding speaker placement, you may simply have to try a few alternatives. As well as the ATCs I mentioned above, the Neat Iota Xplorer might be an option. This reviewer used them 275mm from the wall, which is near enough ten inches!

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/neat-acoustics-iota-xplorer-floorstanding-loudspeaker/

I think you must be forgetting the Spendor D7 can be used quite close to the wall as well with their patented twin venturi, F1 inspired, rear port design. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
2 hours ago, ChemMan said:

I think you must be forgetting the Spendor D7 can be used quite close to the wall as well with their patented twin venturi, F1 inspired, rear port design. :)

Well, yes, but I belatedly remembered his £1300 budget...!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Following on from my original post I think I should be fine as regards bass boom looking at upgrading later on in the year I think positioning the speakers 3ft out from the front wall and toed in 22" from side walls as helped no end now I've added the bass traps I've never heard my system sound so good really pleased the bass traps look good too. I know some people will say I need to measure everything but I am just using my ears and to me everything sounds fantastic looking forwards to trying a few speakers out at home before buying. Thanks for everyone's input its really helped me sought out my problems great forum!!.

DSC_0033 (2019-01-24T19_34_55.000).jpg

DSC_0029 (2019-01-24T15_00_51.000).jpg

Edited by Andywilliams
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.