Andywilliams

Where's your sofa

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My sofas are perpendicular to the speakers , not face on, as also used as a TV room (TV on opposite wall to speakers). This is not ideal for critical listening as they are off axis so I have a light armchair that I move into the sweet spot for full on sessions. As you cannot move your sofa perhaps this could be a solution. Based on your room dimensions it sounds as though your sofa is too far away anyway if considering an ideal listening triangle plus this solution would eliminate rear wall issues.

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the other day we got our 2 sofas collected which are on the right side of one speaker and left side of the other and right angles . what a massive difference it made to the room , there was echo etc and so glad when new ones went back 

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I don't think the sofa position is the problem but try listing to the music when you are about 8 feet away from the speakers. What is the room constructed from? Do you have concrete floor? Room is the biggest factor, my last house had bass problems even with standmounts , this house has none, both times the speakers are firing across the room with sofa against the back wall, it's the only practical  arrangement. 

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32 minutes ago, BeeRay said:

I don't think the sofa position is the problem but try listing to the music when you are about 8 feet away from the speakers. What is the room constructed from? Do you have concrete floor? Room is the biggest factor, my last house had bass problems even with standmounts , this house has none, both times the speakers are firing across the room with sofa against the back wall, it's the only practical  arrangement. 

While no one doubts room furnishing and placement matters.  Most of us don't have much choice about it.  Our HiFis are  an essential addition to the room, but for the rest of the family not the main event.  We need to choose our equipment with care to suit their environment.  So I would not wholly concur with the comments about amplifier damping having no influence on bass bloom.  All the components in the HiFi chain have an effect.  

Edited by Ron Hilditch
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@Andywilliams   As we discussed briefly yesterday, I had similar issues.  My belief is speakers interact with a room in a unique way.  I don't believe changing the amplification will make much difference.  There are plenty of people on this forum that swear by room treatment and DSP, and I've nothing against either.  The question becomes can/will you alter your living space.  I chose not.  The same went for DSP.  I decided to find a speaker I liked that worked with my room.  My understanding is, if you go the route of DSP it costs about 100 pounds sterling for a decent microphone. I am almost positive the software is free.

You have a nice amp. The only ATC speakers I've heard were the SCM40s.   Excellent.   It would be a shame to part ways with a speaker you like because of a sofa. :)

Some rooms are tough.  Even with my LS50s and a sub, I could turn up the sub just a bit past 2 and I had bass bloom.  

Edited by ChemMan
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Hi as regards my room I had the back wall where the sofa is soundproofed  there's acoustic wadding with acoustic plasterboard  there's then a four inch void with a solid partition wall the rest of the walls are all solid (old house) with concrete floors. One of My Hifi dealers stocks the spendor D7  chemman could try a home demo going to have to suck it and see the Atcs do sound good with very tight controlled bass in my room could also try the bigger atcs as Rick at musicraft sells them and his shop is just up the road from me don't really no much about the equalization side with regards 2channel amps .

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Super Wammer

I’ve usually managed to avoid having a sofa against the back wall, and I agree that it often causes problems.  It seems to be very popular for TV viewing, but it doesn’t do the sound any favours. 

We now have a large enough room to watch across the width for tv, and listen down the length for Hi-Fi, but the listening area is barely half way along the length.  That does mean the sound and vision aren’t shared as they once were, but we solved that with a nice Canton soundbase for the telly.  

Is it worth trying some isolators for the speakers if you have no choice on location?  Not necessarily the expensive but allegedly rather good Gaia designs, but something with chopping boards and sorbothane pucks maybe?

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28 minutes ago, Andywilliams said:

don't really no much about the equalization side with regards 2channel amps

There are loads of people in this forum who know DSP and Equalization well.  There are reasonably priced solutions.  I don't know near enough about room acoustics as to why something would be happening, I just know when it is happening.

You might as well start a thread on this DSP solution.  With a good size dealer right near you home, there are bound to be reasonable solutions.  Of course, if you want to get a home demo of a new speaker than by all means, start with a D7.  :)

We are happy to oblige and to assist.

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Do you experience bass boom on every source (LP, CD, Streaming?) .. as to damping factor that is not a total indication of bass control (and besides it depends on what frequency it was measured at - they quote 4000 but without a reference point as to the frequency it was measured at that figure is meaningless).  However, HIFI + said "The Hegel H190 needs a loudspeaker with smooth treble and good bass extension, but the fact that it has so much control over the low end makes the range of options wider than average.".

All I can say is my speakers fire down a 21 foot long lounge (12 feet wide) with a two seater sofa on the "back wall" (well three feet away from it).  I have never suffered from bass boom .. (speakers used in the room have included Art Impressions, Art Expressions, Art Skibo,  Rogers Pro9TL transmission lines, TDL studio transmission lines, Gale 401s,  Quad ELS57 and 63, DCM Time windows, Celestion Ditton 25s,  B&W DM2a,  KEF 104/2, Radford Tristars, and a host of others).   My current Art Impressions are about two feet away from walls all round (like you have) but I do have curtains behind the loudspeakers.

Experiment with speaker placement.  try them further out into the room and/or further away from the side walls.  If that doesn't work we will need to think again ...

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Super Dealer

Even without a microphone you can use this online room mode calculator to discover your room’s main modes.

https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=700&w=450&h=285&r60=0.6

Keith

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@Andywilliams where in Derbyshire are you? Easiest way to tell what's happening is to measure your room. Bass bloom might not necessarily be down to mode, it's likely uneven reverberation. All this would show on measurements. 

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Super Dealer

What is uneven reverberation?

Keith

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Super Wammer

Sitting so close to a wall isn't just a bass problem anyway, when the sofa is that close you get a lot of treble confusion due to the short reflection time between the rear wall and your ears. I managed to pull my sofa out by a foot, and it really helped, but even that is too close TBH. Like most of us, there was a limit to what was domestically acceptable. No DSP will fix the reflection time problem.

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Decay times vary depending on frequency. Most untreated rooms are more reverberant at certain frequencies, this depends on furnishings, what building is made from, dimensions, etc. Many rooms are more reverberant in bass. When treating the room and looking at decay times (reverberation) usual goal is to make the reverberation even across frequency spectrum. Modes will only highlight this issue and aren't an issue as such. 

Edited by insider9

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Super Dealer

Higher frequencies are seldom a problem as they become, quickly absorbed/ diffused by furniture and the air itself, it is the bass frequencies which have far more energy which iare nearly always problematic in domestic rooms.

The online room mode calculator will give you som idea of the probable frequencies and then you can check them with a signal generator.

Keith

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