Andywilliams

Where's your sofa

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I don't disagree Keith. Ideally you want direct sound from speakers so absorption of high frequencies isn't a problem in itself. It's when reverberation is a downward slope when bass is highly reverberant and high frequencies are mostly absorbed. The linked calculator is great and I've used it many times before, but actual measurements are what's needed here. They will show up an array of issues, but that's the only way to actually improve anything. 

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Super Wammer

The room dimensions were in the first post, and the likely frequencies in the third one...

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No sofa in my room.

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Bugger me, (perhaps not)  I never realised a sofa could cause so many people problems .. it may be the case but it has never upset my system (in any form over the last 40 years).

Just do as i said earlier before you get all technical and play with EQ and room furniture placement and bass traps - oh and pull the sofa you sit on to do your listening about two or three feet away from the wall. 

Having done that please report back as to what affect moving the speakers out a bit and or in a bit to give more space from back/side walls .. pull your sofa a little closer to the loudspeakers so you are about 8 to 10 feet away when listening and then let us know what affects each or the changes made and whether it sorts the problem.

At night I have curtains drawn behind the sofa and in the daytime I do not (large window reflecting sound in the daytime) and the difference is hard to notice in my room.  In my experience problems are encountered more with a square room.  Somehow I cannot feel that a lot of the suggestions so far have been a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  At a recent bake off we were in two houses both with sofas for the listening seating and two completely different rooms and neither suffered from bass bloom or boom at all .. one of the people concerned had ProAcD30RS, and recently bought some ATC SCM40s.  The other system had Spendor SP200s I think (god my memory) in a large sparsely furnished room with the sofa in from a solid back wall.   So forgive me for doubting the affect of a sofa.

So I look forward to hearing how you get on with the placement suggestions to see if they have a positive impact on the problem. 

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Hi uzzy hopefully next year when I look at upgrading the speakers it won't be a problem. Having changed the amp from the Arcam a39 to the Hegel H190 the speaker cables and interconnects to Tellerium q black (I can hear a difference😃)  it may not be a problem as I said I've seen loads of systems in rooms with sofas on the back wall my room is furnished with thick carpets heavy curtains the massive sofa oak furniture never had a problem with high frequencies though. I am stuck with the sofa for now as its a huge corner unit I really can't do anything about that when I had the PMC speakers I moved them all over away from any walls and they still boomed I am very critical though with bass it has to be tight and controlled or I can't live with the system.

Edited by Andywilliams

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My speakers are next to the wall, toed in, and the sofa facing them is close to the opposite wall with a radiator behind. There is another sofa to one side with a window at the other. I do not have any problems, the speakers being semi omnidirectional being a plus point. The image does slightly improve with the curtains drawn, minimising reflections.

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1 hour ago, Andywilliams said:

Hi uzzy hopefully next year when I look at upgrading the speakers it won't be a problem. Having changed the amp from the Arcam a39 to the Hegel H190 the speaker cables and interconnects to Tellerium q black (I can hear a difference😃)  it may not be a problem as I said I've seen loads of systems in rooms with sofas on the back wall my room is furnished with thick carpets heavy curtains the massive sofa oak furniture never had a problem with high frequencies though. I am stuck with the sofa for now as its a huge corner unit I really can't do anything about that when I had the PMC speakers I moved them all over away from any walls and they still boomed I am very critical though with bass it has to be tight and controlled or I can't live with the system.

There was a post earlier in the thread suggesting to try granite chopping boards under the speakers/speaker stands. Place the boards on top of an absorbing material (I used ice hockey pucks). With suspended wooden floors in particular this can have a pronounced impact on the in room bass giving a drier,  leaner overall balance which could reduce some of the issues you are finding.

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Hi at the moment I have no problems at all with the sound quality last year I changed the amp and brought the Rega planar 8 with the aria phono stage next year I am going to hopefully upgrade the speakers budget around £4500 I thought the PMC 25-23 would have been fine in my room but sounded noticeably inferior to my atcs as regards bass think all I can do is try at home and see how it works out if I do stay with standmounts may try the Bowers and wilkins 805 d3s I must say they do look stunning but haven't  listened to them. Think cheman demoed 30 odd speakers before he found something that ticked all the boxes. Picture of the pmcs before I changed the amp and brought the Rega.

DSC_0293.jpg

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DSC_0059.jpg

Edited by Andywilliams

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Think now you can see what I mean about the sofa. Picture of system now. Cd looks like its on a slope just the photo everything's dead level done with a spirit level.

DSC_0005 (2018-12-01T12_29_05.000).jpg

Edited by Andywilliams

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Super Wammer

I don’t normally recommend what I own, but as you like ATCs the obvious step up is to SCM40s. They’ll pretty much have the same footprint and with sealed boxes (and the attendant bass roll off) are less likely to cause unwanted problems than the PMCs you’ve tried. 

Any dealer will let you try them at home if you’re buying new, and mine did likewise with used as well. 

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Hi nopiano yes could do that think Rick at musicraft has a pair of scm 40s in black ex demo £2400 might be worth asking him if I could home demo them .

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Super Wammer

Having watched @TheFlash and his journey to the ATC SCM40 active speakers I would put in my 2p which is that I think the active version of the ATC 40 speakers are miles ahead of the passive version.

Second hand versions of the actives should be within your budget.

Edited by Fourlegs
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Super Wammer

@Andywilliams Happy to answer any Q’s re SCM40 and SCM40A (here or via PM) now Nick has rubbed my lamp 🤔.

The passives are lovely, really lovely but would not have replaced my ProAc D30RS; the actives are about to do that I think, I just want to give the ProAcs another shot now my ear is tuned into the ATC’s. The actives are quite extraordinary. They could/should cost a helluva lot more for the sound quality. And of course they require a pre not pre+power or integrated amp.

Hearing a pair early on might help you skip a few steps in your speaker/amp journey!

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