Paulssurround

Tweaking Your Linn System For Higher Performance, Part 2, Vibration Control

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Hi

Ok I get you are all about tiny vibs interfering with sonics  but what about real stylus jumping vibrations from sprung floors!

thats my situation  I can’t use a wall bracket in this house, I placed my ( 1st gen) Sondek on a very heavy sideboard where I was using a cheap ass Sony Systems TT without a problem and I swear if I breath to heavy the stylus jumps👀

what about the Tranpolin?  I’m taking her in for new springs etc and I could afford a Tranploin upgrade if it would work?  Other than that is it best to try something under the feet of the sideboard or the LP12  and if not the Trampoline, what do you guys recommend?

Ed

MUSIC IS LIFE

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It is possible that the stylus jumping situation is down to resonance where the frequency of the turntable "bounce" coincides with the frequency of bounce for the location on which the turntable is placed. This occurs quite a bit for sprung turntables of different makes. Either adjust the springs on the turntable so the bounce no longer coincides (may no longer align with plinth) or relocate the turntable or try to dampen the natural bounce associated with the sideboard location.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_resonance

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On 18/11/2018 at 17:30, Paulssurround said:

Here is an example from my Linn system. Although, I have gone to extremes to decouple my speakers from the concrete floor, to minimize the sound penetrating to my neighbor living one floor down. The ideal situation is to place your spikes directly on top of the concrete floor, to allow speaker cabinet vibrations to dissipate into the concrete.

Hi Paul, just a thought, I currently have my Keilidhs on their designated plinths with spikes into my wooden suspended floor, which is also covered by carpet. Do you think that it would be worthwhile experimenting with a solid piece of granite under each speaker? I see both you and phino have that kind of setup. I could lay the granite slab on the carpet and then place the speaker plinth with spikes on top of that? I presume the spikes would need to rest on something rubbery? 

As ever, your thoughts would be welcomed! :notworthy:

These are cheap enough to try....https://www.amazon.co.uk/Naturals-Granite-Protector-Creative-Tops/dp/B01B84PMLS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1543255605&sr=8-3&keywords=granite+chopping+boards+40+x+30

_T3A6265b.thumb.jpg.518ba10b1026063d37d666db499db760.jpg

Edited by SnapperMike

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51 minutes ago, SnapperMike said:

Hi Paul, just a thought, I currently have my Keilidhs on their designated plinths with spikes into my wooden suspended floor, which is also covered by carpet. Do you think that it would be worthwhile experimenting with a solid piece of granite under each speaker? I see both you and phino have that kind of setup. I could lay the granite slab on the carpet and then place the speaker plinth with spikes on top of that? I presume the spikes would need to rest on something rubbery? 

As ever, your thoughts would be welcomed! :notworthy:

These are cheap enough to try....https://www.amazon.co.uk/Naturals-Granite-Protector-Creative-Tops/dp/B01B84PMLS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1543255605&sr=8-3&keywords=granite+chopping+boards+40+x+30

_T3A6265b.thumb.jpg.518ba10b1026063d37d666db499db760.jpg

Yup, mine are on top quality Tesco granite chopping boards.  I've tried nothing at all, granite, bamboo and oak, the granite seems the best of the lot.  I never did get on with straight through the carpet, it never really felt properly seated.  The spikes are directly onto the granite, no spongy bits inbetween - I've tried that too and prefer the direct contact.  You do need to be really careful to make sure all four are properly in contact and equally loaded, it can make a bit of a mess of things if one of them starts vibrating.   A rubber washer between the spike washer and the plinth helps to stop them vibrating loose.

One day I intend trying something beefier than the chopping boards - either thicker granite or a concrete slab.

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Hi SnapperMike,

I tend to agree with Phino, by putting the spikes onto a granite slab, with the granite slab placed on top of the carpet.

If you keep the current setup without granite, make sure that the bottom of the plinth does not touch the carpet, otherwise I recommend that you raise the spikes so the plinth has some clearance above the carpet. Otherwise if the carpet touch’s the plinth, it will suck of the life out in the music.

The spikes should be placed directly on the granite slab, but no rubber needed under the spikes, as that will degrade the sound.

If you had Skeets, then I would recommend trying Gunstigs under the Skeets.

You may wish to consider placing pieces of rubber or silicon under the TV on its stand. It will not improve the picture quality, but it may remove another potential source of vibrations.  😊👏

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Super Dealer
11 hours ago, EbbandFlow said:

Hi

Ok I get you are all about tiny vibs interfering with sonics  but what about real stylus jumping vibrations from sprung floors!

thats my situation  I can’t use a wall bracket in this house, I placed my ( 1st gen) Sondek on a very heavy sideboard where I was using a cheap ass Sony Systems TT without a problem and I swear if I breath to heavy the stylus jumps👀

what about the Tranpolin?  I’m taking her in for new springs etc and I could afford a Tranploin upgrade if it would work?  Other than that is it best to try something under the feet of the sideboard or the LP12  and if not the Trampoline, what do you guys recommend?

Ed

MUSIC IS LIFE

If you really want to isolate you need something like a laboratory  isolation table from these people, or something similar.

https://www.speirsrobertson.co.uk/

You would need to speak to them about the correct appliance for your application.

Keith

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1 hour ago, phino said:

Yup, mine are on top quality Tesco granite chopping boards.  I've tried nothing at all, granite, bamboo and oak, the granite seems the best of the lot.  I never did get on with straight through the carpet, it never really felt properly seated.  The spikes are directly onto the granite, no spongy bits inbetween - I've tried that too and prefer the direct contact.  You do need to be really careful to make sure all four are properly in contact and equally loaded, it can make a bit of a mess of things if one of them starts vibrating.   A rubber washer between the spike washer and the plinth helps to stop them vibrating loose.

One day I intend trying something beefier than the chopping boards - either thicker granite or a concrete slab.

Thanks phino, I'll maybe look around for a thicker piece of granite before ordering these from Amazon. There's a few tile shops in the area. I'm determined to exhaust every last effort in bettering my sound before upgrading the hardware. :)

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56 minutes ago, Paulssurround said:

Hi SnapperMike,

I tend to agree with Phino, by putting the spikes onto a granite slab, with the granite slab placed on top of the carpet.

If you keep the current setup without granite, make sure that the bottom of the plinth does not touch the carpet, otherwise I recommend that you raise the spikes so the plinth has some clearance above the carpet. Otherwise if the carpet touch’s the plinth, it will suck of the life out in the music.

The spikes should be placed directly on the granite slab, but no rubber needed under the spikes, as that will degrade the sound.

If you had Skeets, then I would recommend trying Gunstigs under the Skeets.

You may wish to consider placing pieces of rubber or silicon under the TV on its stand. It will not improve the picture quality, but it may remove another potential source of vibrations.  😊👏

Cheers Paul. The speakers are actually pretty close to (but not touching) the carpet. I will however, try some granite and see if there's any difference.

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15 minutes ago, SnapperMike said:

Thanks phino, I'll maybe look around for a thicker piece of granite before ordering these from Amazon. There's a few tile shops in the area. I'm determined to exhaust every last effort in bettering my sound before upgrading the hardware. :)

My Tesco ones were pretty cheap - but it was a good few years ago now.  They're a bit thicker than most of the ones I've seen lately (can't pass a kitchen section without looking for new chopping boards - but I'm getting over it :D).

If you have a kitchen or memorial workshop close by you could check them out for some offcuts...

Before I started using chopping boards I could feel the vibrations in the floor with my feet.  It was pretty funky, but I thought it was probably better to try to get that energy out into the air somehow!

Some people swear by Skeets directly on carpet.  Apparently it's all a bit wobbly (physically, not sound wise), but does the job.  I've also heard of using thick rubber mats (no spikes).  That's a direction I've not tried, but it's intriguing!

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5 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

If you really want to isolate you need something like a laboratory  isolation table from these people, or something similar.

https://www.speirsrobertson.co.uk/

You would need to speak to them about the correct appliance for your application.

Keith

thanks Keith  however I can see two things; that they make scientific instruments supports and labs aren’t on sprung floorboards and they would be well out of my reach financially.  I’m really hoping someone has met this challenge in a budget dyi way  eg do these slate, chopping block, butters block, sorbethane, blue tack setups work in my situation which isn’t about deeper base or clear highs but about stopping the darn stylus jumping when I blink👀

regs

Ed

5 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

If you really want to isolate you need something like a laboratory  isolation table from these people, or something similar.

https://www.speirsrobertson.co.uk/

You would need to speak to them about the correct appliance for your application.

Keith

Hi 

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Super Dealer

The way isolation, proper isolation works is that the floor may be vibrating but that 

vibration does not get passed on the turntable, the floors movement is absorbed by the isolation.

Visco-elastic material such as Sorbathane which is open cell rubber is very effective , any cup and ball devices such as still points aren’t isolating at all, certainly not in the vertical plane and are actually directly coupling .

Keith

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Re the jumping stylus with the deck on a heavy  sideboard, on a suspended wooden floor.

This issue is rather more basic than most of the stuff discussed here. 

In sonic terms , of course the deck could  be sited on something better ...but the stylus jumping is a different issue .

This is due to the heavy  mass of the sideboard rocking  around laterally with movement of the suspended floor beneath  .

Try wedging something between the top back of the sideboard and the wall. This will restrict the movement with footfall etc to the vertical plane...which the turntable's suspension is much better able to deal with .

Good luck :D

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Not having an Ikea anywhere close to me, I tried some of these (4 for £20)...

https://www.lakeland.co.uk/73508/Zone-Denmark-Triangles-Silicone-Trivet-–-Cactus-Green

...to replace small felt pads I've been using.  The felt pads worked well I thought, but seemed to go off the boil, maybe they were slowly compressing under the weight?  These new things are very noticeably better!

For the sake of a few quid, it makes you wonder why the feet fitted to equipment aren't better? 

All my electronics are now sat on bits of them, switch and nas included mainly because I had enough left over.  Under the Ds was a huge improvement, under the Exaktbox was better again, after that I put them under both amps (there's an amp for left and one for right so it would be difficult to tell individually), smaller improvement there.   No idea if the switch & nas made a difference - I was just using up the leftovers!

Next step might be to try something under the granite slabs that the speakers sit on as I can still feel some vibration through the floor.  Or meatier slabs of granite.

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4 hours ago, phino said:

Not having an Ikea anywhere close to me, I tried some of these (4 for £20)...

https://www.lakeland.co.uk/73508/Zone-Denmark-Triangles-Silicone-Trivet-–-Cactus-Green

...to replace small felt pads I've been using.  The felt pads worked well I thought, but seemed to go off the boil, maybe they were slowly compressing under the weight?  These new things are very noticeably better!

For the sake of a few quid, it makes you wonder why the feet fitted to equipment aren't better? 

All my electronics are now sat on bits of them, switch and nas included mainly because I had enough left over.  Under the Ds was a huge improvement, under the Exaktbox was better again, after that I put them under both amps (there's an amp for left and one for right so it would be difficult to tell individually), smaller improvement there.   No idea if the switch & nas made a difference - I was just using up the leftovers!

Next step might be to try something under the granite slabs that the speakers sit on as I can still feel some vibration through the floor.  Or meatier slabs of granite.

Great news Phino

Welcome to the silicon implants club   😉

It is fascinating what an improvement the silicon trivet can make. 

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Ok that’s great for sound quality but my problem is much more basic.  I’ve a first gen Sondek that’s on a 1960s sideboard about 9ft in length that’s stands on four legs on a sprung hardwood floor which is intern about 10ft off the ground ( we live in a flood belt)

walking within three ft of it sent the tonearm flying. But I’ve recently cut up some inner soles and placed them under the linns feet until I got it level and there’s been a big improvement although still far from perfect.

Im getting a wall support next year if I have to, however as the inner soles had this effect shouldn’t it be possible to get even better result heading in that direction ie placing better vibration  control devices where the inner soles are? ( it also looks quite naf although turntable foot odour won’t be a problem 😅)

i did post a similar question some time back although your post has allowed me to articulate the problem more clearly and the only reply I got suggested solves way out of my budget!

After reading your post I’m  thinking a combo sandwich with the IKEA mat as the bread and bamboo board the filling might get me there?

I can’t help thinking that something under each sideboard leg would help too but have no idea wha to try.  Whatever’s used there would need to withstand a lot of weight though.

Best regards and Happy Christmas 

Ebb🌲

F900939D-96C8-469E-81B4-7FAB77104723.jpeg

Edited by EbbandFlow
Sorry backlighting is a problem b&w edit seems to help

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