eddie-baby

Vinyl back on the shelves at Tesco 

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8 minutes ago, Sgt Pepper said:

I will maybe put this to you, why is it then that all the best in Music production and audiophile sound reproduction prefer Analogue/Vinyl over the digital counterpart if it is in your " opinion " just a  " fun " thing to listen to?. 

It’s certainly not the case that all the best in music production and audiophile sound prefer analogue/vinyl. For example, the best engineers and producers in Classical recording like Bert van der Wolf, Jared Sachs and Tom Caulfied etc. all use state of the art DSD256 digital recording. When digital recording came on the scene the Classical recording industry dropped analogue tape like a rock. Recordings of their standard aren’t possible with pure analogue equipment - just sample some of their work on the Challenge Classics, Channel Classics labels at nativedsd.com.

Edited by Nagraboy

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watch from 4:32 on this video:

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3 minutes ago, Nagraboy said:

It’s certainly not the case that all the best in music production and audiophile sound prefer analogue/vinyl. Form example, the best engineers and producers in Classical recording like Bert van see Wolf, Jared Sachs and Tom Caulfied etc. all use state of the art DSD256 digital recording. Recordings of their standard aren’t possible with pure analogue equipment. When digital recording came on the scene the Classical recording industry dropped analogue tape like a rock.

I disagree there are many Analogue Masters of Classical being produced using high quality reproduction techniques.

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Super Wammer
2 minutes ago, eddie-baby said:

What I meant also was would the copy I bought back in 1984 be the same as the one in Tesco's now? Or a digital remaster of some sort that would sound different from my 1984 original copy.

If you read my post, you'll see that it would most likely have been mastered using a digital delay line. If the same mastering moves were made today, the result would likely be better, as digital has improved. However, mastering is about a lot more that just the provenance of the source, and there is plenty that can go awry.

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13 minutes ago, Sgt Pepper said:

I disagree there are many Analogue Masters of Classical being produced using high quality reproduction techniques.

Are you talking about reissues of famous old recordings? Or modern Classical albums being made with tape machines and no AD converters? Regarding the former, I have a lot of the old RCA Living Stereo albums on SACD. They went back to the original tapes and converted them to DSD64 using dCS AD converters. This data was then directly pressed to SACD. Imagine all the stages of distortion if the original tape was used to make a vinyl record? Then of course there’s all the distortion added during replay at home. With the SACD I’m closer to the source and that’s what I want for these archival recordings. Some may prefer to hear them on vinyl - I own a few of them myself - but it is obviously much more distorted than the DSD masters.

If it’s the latter, then that is a very fringe pursuit, serving the previously-referenced ‘analogue purity religion’. Serious Classical audiophiles are served best by eg. the previously mentioned digital engineers.

The thing with vinyl replay is that it gives obsessive perfectionist people something to work on. And that’s fine. You can always find a way of making a subtle difference/subjective improvement with analogue, whereas a decent digital source is already much better technically than any vinyl setup in the world. Vinyl replay can always be improved because it’s starting at a much lower level in the first place. It is however, usually, good enough to enjoy. Maybe the problem with digital therefore, is that there’s nothing to tinker with for the restless-minded among us, and that’s what keeps the audiophile obsessives going.

Edited by Nagraboy

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Did you watch the video?

This is pretty good also:

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/ten-years-digital-revolution-continuing-disaster-sound-0

As I say like both but prefer the tactility of Vinyl.

Edited by Sgt Pepper

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Yes, watched the video and read quite a bit of the article.

We have two die-hard vinyl obsessives saying they prefer it to digital, and that’s cool. Fremer sounds a bit mad really, and he makes numerous false analogies in the article, that represent the opposite of what he’s talking about. Like when he compares CD and vinyl, with video tape and original film. The latter two are analogue mediums, with video tape being measurably inferior to actual film. Totally false analogy, but he says it with such passion that maybe it would convince less skeptical readers.

It’s funny when he mentions the Nirvana Nevermind LP album being so much better than the digital. They had to cut the bass and do all sorts of tricks just to get it on the vinyl. But it’s somehow truer to the music? What utter rubbish. Fremer has vinyl and analogue as his religion. You could change the key words and it would be a priest lambasting heresy.

I don’t even dislike vinyl, but the constant conflation of personal preference with technical superiority, and the conflation of analogue tape with vinyl records is really silly. If people like it, they like it, they don’t have to try to prove its better than digital and make irrational arguments and false analogies about it.

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15 minutes ago, Nagraboy said:

Yes, watched the video and read quite a bit of the article.

We have two die-hard vinyl obsessives saying they prefer it to digital, and that’s cool. Fremer sounds a bit mad really, and he makes numerous false analogies in the article, that represent the opposite of what he’s talking about. Like when he compares CD and vinyl, with video tape and original film. The latter two are analogue mediums, with video tape being measurably inferior to actual film. Totally false analogy, but he says it with such passion that maybe it would convince less skeptical readers.

It’s funny when he mentions the Nirvana Nevermind LP album being so much better than the digital. They had to cut the bass and do all sorts of tricks just to get it on the vinyl. But it’s somehow truer to the music? What utter rubbish. Fremer has vinyl and analogue as his religion. You could change the key words and it would be a priest lambasting heresy.

I don’t even dislike vinyl, but the constant conflation of personal preference with technical superiority, and the conflation of analogue tape with vinyl records is really silly. If people like it, they like it, they don’t have to try to prove its better than digital and make irrational arguments and false analogies about it.

I don't think anyone is making false analogies just going what some experts say and of course their ears. To say Fremmer is a mad, well lets just say he knows a little about music reproduction, so does Bernie Grundman, Kevin Gray, Giles Martin, Miles Showell, Sam Oakell, all of which I am told prefer vinyl. As the gentleman in the video said they are two  different formats, but many prefer the sound of Analogue over Digital and that is why we are getting so many Analogue masters being produced now.

" Fremer has vinyl and analogue as his religion " why would that be do you think.

Edited by Sgt Pepper

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If digital sound is so much worse than vinyl, why do analogue supporters buy digitally remastered vinyl? I don't much care either way, some stuff, to me sounds better on Vinyl,  some on digital. I think it is more about the care that has gone into the mastering than the replay format. I do think that if you want analogue to match digital, you can take your digital front end cost and double it as a minimum more likely treble it.

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3 minutes ago, Sgt Pepper said:

I don't think anyone is making false analogies just going what some experts say and of course their ears. To say Fremmer is a mad, well lets just say he knows a little about music reproduction, so does Bernie Grundman, Kevin Gray, Giles Martin, Miles Showell, Sam Oakell, all of which I am told prefer vinyl. As the gentleman in the video said they are two  different formats, but many prefer the sound of Analogue over Digital and that is why we are getting so many Analogue masters being produced now.

" Fremer has vinyl and analogue as his religion " why would that be do you think.

This has never been a discussion about preference and I’ve not said it’s wrong to prefer one format over another. We should listen t owaht we want to. So it’s not relevant here what people prefer.

We haven’t discussed why some people might prefer vinyl yet - it could have something to do with the fact that we don't actually listen to vinyl or digital files, we listen to an analogue signal coming from our amps played through our speakers. Recreating a whole orchestra in a small living room isn’t possible, but perhaps the distortions of vinyl playback make the experience more believable than a more accurate digital playback method? Quite possible.

As for Fremer, he’s a New York liberal so actual Judaism or Christianity is probably out of the question. But a lot of people still need to find something for the religious part of themselves to latch onto, and music listening is certainly an ecstatic experience akin to some religious feelings. It’s probably that.

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1 hour ago, Nagraboy said:

This has never been a discussion about preference and I’ve not said it’s wrong to prefer one format over another. We should listen t owaht we want to. So it’s not relevant here what people prefer.

We haven’t discussed why some people might prefer vinyl yet - it could have something to do with the fact that we don't actually listen to vinyl or digital files, we listen to an analogue signal coming from our amps played through our speakers. Recreating a whole orchestra in a small living room isn’t possible, but perhaps the distortions of vinyl playback make the experience more believable than a more accurate digital playback method? Quite possible.

As for Fremer, he’s a New York liberal so actual Judaism or Christianity is probably out of the question. But a lot of people still need to find something for the religious part of themselves to latch onto, and music listening is certainly an ecstatic experience akin to some religious feelings. It’s probably that.

Or just that music listening is highly subjective and in his opinion and many others analogue sound better, you think it doesn't again just an opinion.

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Wonder if they will start doing their own exclusives in the future like Sainsbury's who have released some superb colour pressings of early Madonna releases amongst many others. I noticed on Discogs yesterday that they also released a couple of Kylie albums not so long ago that are going for silly money already.

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13 hours ago, Sgt Pepper said:

Try listening to the The White Album anniversary 50th mix. which album was that?

Probably not up your street but it was "On The Radio" by Donna Summer, honestly the remaster sounds flat, lifeless and dull when compared to the original 1979 release... not sure why.

One observation between the different albums is that on the original album the grooves cover nearly all the available space on each side with a very small run-off section; the new album has so much space at the end of each side that you could nearly fit another track in the run-off area. 

Edited by DougK
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12 hours ago, eddie-baby said:

What I meant also was would the copy I bought back in 1984 be the same as the one in Tesco's now? Or a digital remaster of some sort that would sound different from my 1984 original copy.

Only one way to find out... go and buy it :)

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Nothing beats the walk over, stand and ponder and decide which shinny spinner to put on, pull that beauty out the sound of static fills the air, lay her on the deck click that spinner on carefully lift and line up the arm, let gravity do it job oh baby snap crackle pop there she goes walk back take a seat, enjoy the bliss and repeat the above in 15 mins or so!!  

Lov it!  

S

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