eddie-baby

Vinyl back on the shelves at Tesco 

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Wow, walked around Tesco today and amazingly found 'the vinyl aisle'. It was a bit of a WTF moment I have to say. So nice to see though, many a classic album was there all in brand new cellophane wrapping, just left me thinking, oh no now what :D

There is nothing quite like going through those big sleeves, those big covers are just works of art and still look as fresh and trendy as they've always been. For all my highly in depth best sounding digital hardware searching and now streaming chasing, its so tempting to get back into the vinyl again, especially now if it's going to become common place again. And then there's that pure analogue sound :x

Edited by eddie-baby

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More like pure digital sound as all new vinyl is taken from digital masters, not analogue master tapes. I recently bought a remastered version of an album I already owned and in comparison to the original it sounded pants. 

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13 minutes ago, DougK said:

More like pure digital sound as all new vinyl is taken from digital masters, not analogue master tapes. I recently bought a remastered version of an album I already owned and in comparison to the original it sounded pants. 

That’s ok, digital is much more transparent than analogue anyway. Vinyl sounds like it does because of the distortion it adds, it’s just a bit of nostalgic fun really.

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14 minutes ago, Nagraboy said:

That’s ok, digital is much more transparent than analogue anyway. Vinyl sounds like it does because of the distortion it adds, it’s just a bit of nostalgic fun really.

:pop:

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I thought the whole revived vinyl scene was to do with spending time browsing at your local independent record shop not throwing an LP in the Tesco trolley along with your Value Label vodka, 99p pizzas, oven chips and ciggies!

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55 minutes ago, DougK said:

More like pure digital sound as all new vinyl is taken from digital masters, not analogue master tapes. I recently bought a remastered version of an album I already owned and in comparison to the original it sounded pants. 

Try listening to the The White Album anniversary 50th mix. which album was that?

Edited by Sgt Pepper

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38 minutes ago, Nagraboy said:

That’s ok, digital is much more transparent than analogue anyway. Vinyl sounds like it does because of the distortion it adds, it’s just a bit of nostalgic fun really.

Horses for courses of course. I like both but prefer the audio quality of an LP.

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55 minutes ago, Nagraboy said:

That’s ok, digital is much more transparent than analogue anyway. Vinyl sounds like it does because of the distortion it adds, it’s just a bit of nostalgic fun really.

oh really, I didnt realise that, so the Purple Rain album (just for example) that was on sale there all new and shiny never used would not be the same as the Purple Rain album I bought back in 1984 would it?

59 minutes ago, Nagraboy said:

That’s ok, digital is much more transparent than analogue anyway. Vinyl sounds like it does because of the distortion it adds, it’s just a bit of nostalgic fun really.

Yes I kind of get this, but I was under the impression that there was just more from a pure analogue source. Digital however clean and wonderful it is is a collection of 0s and 1s, and for want of a better word compressed and limited, yet vinyl doesn't have so much restriction and has a much wider bandwidth or less bottlenecked in its pure analogue'ness form, if you know what I mean.   

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I bought a copy of Abbey Road for a mates 60th in December 2016 from Tesco in Trowbridge, whilst waiting for a seller to return home so I could pick up a Teccy 1210.

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21 minutes ago, Sgt Pepper said:

Horses for courses of course. I like both but prefer the audio quality of an LP.

Of course. Whether you prefer the presentation of vinyl to digital sources is a personal thing, but I was referring to the suggestion that a vinyl record made from a digital master is inferior because of the digital part.

I always think it’s absurd when I read of people suggesting that analogue is the gold standard of audio perfection with digital a poor second, as in ‘This new £50,000 DAC nearly reaches the best analogue systems’ - for matters of taste, perhaps, but not of high-fidelity. It doesn’t matter that the original recording was made on analogue tape and stays analogue all the way to our speakers  - to hear music on a vinyl record at home necessitates a whole string of distortion-causing stages not present when that original analogue tape is converted to digital at the earliest possible stage.

As I said, vinyl is just a bit of fun for me and I wouldn’t spend loads on it if my aim was maximum fidelity. Having said that, I like well-made things and it can be fun to build a good-sounding vinyl setup - something I’m looking at doing now. I do find my Roon Nucleus/Sony DAC digital setup to be the best source I’ve owned though.

One thing that annoys me about vinyl in shops is that the shelves are often so tightly packed with records that you can’t look through them without removing a handful first. It must be squashing the records and damaging them. HMV in Leicester is very bad for this.

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Super Wammer
1 hour ago, DougK said:

More like pure digital sound as all new vinyl is taken from digital masters, not analogue master tapes. I recently bought a remastered version of an album I already owned and in comparison to the original it sounded pants. 

Actually there's three basic ways that an LP can be mastered these days.

1. Digital master. This is by far the most common, and the source could be CD quality, not necessarily hi-res. Of course most new stuff was recorded digitally, so this makes sense, but it also holds true for the vast majority of re-releases.

2. Analogue master, but using a digital delay line.

3. All analogue, using a preview tape head.

In order to master an LP, the engineer has to be able to hear the music before it gets to the cutting head so that he can alter the pitch of the grooves for the loud and quiet bits. Some LPs have been cut with fixed pitch, but as this has to accommodate the loudest sections, this would make an LP side short.

Option 2 delays the sound to the cutting head using a digital delay, i.e. the analogue is passed through an ADC/DAC chain just ahead of the cutting head. Neumann started introducing digital delay lines in the seventies (1976 I believe), and most mastering facilities moved away from option 3 over time. The original delay lines were relatively low res by today's standards.

Option 3 adds an extra tape head to the analogue playback machine. This is positioned ahead of the main playback heads and allows the engineer to hear the music just prior to it reaching the cutting head. This option is pretty rare these days. I believe Steve Hoffman has this option for analogue, and that MOV can also do this. This is the only pure analogue choice, but isn't well liked by the engineers as the maintenance costs are high.

It's pretty hard to find out exactly which of these options have been used for a given remaster, and even those that have given out a description won't necessarily tie it down. "Mastered from the original analogue tapes" could have been cut using any of the three methods, although I doubt that in most cases this would include option 1.

If you want to be sure you are listening to an all analogue LP on your system, then you have to play one that was mastered before 1976.

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35 minutes ago, eddie-baby said:

oh really, I didnt realise that, so the Purple Rain album (just for example) that was on sale there all new and shiny never used would not be the same as the Purple Rain album I bought back in 1984 would it?

Yes I kind of get this, but I was under the impression that there was just more from a pure analogue source. Digital however clean and wonderful it is is a collection of 0s and 1s, and for want of a better word compressed and limited, yet vinyl doesn't have so much restriction and has a much wider bandwidth or less bottlenecked in its pure analogue'ness form, if you know what I mean.   

Not sure what you mean about the Purple Rain album?

Your second paragraph has the classic mistake of assuming the digitisation of an analogue tape throws information away that would be audible on a vinyl record. A vinyl record is not and cannot be a perfect copy of an analogue tape! Vinyl with its much higher noise floor obscures the lowest audible sounds which are preserved with digital. Vinyl has a S/N ratio far less than CD’s 16 bits - around 11 bits IIRC - so cannot replay the finest details. It’s not possible. So actually it’s vinyl that has the restriction in audible sound, eg noise, bandwidth - not digital which can have a S/N ratio and bandwidth better than the electronics used to replay it. This is easily measured as a fact. Of course, this doesn’t stop vinyl sounding pleasant and being a fun hobby.

A separate question would be analogue master tape replay, versus playback of the same master tape having been digitised. That’s a more sensible comparison. I would say that although people have recently been raving about reel-to-reel as the ultimate source, it still has distortion caused by the mechanical nature of analogue replay. I think these people are in a kind of ‘religion of analogue purity’ so won’t accept the well-founded science about this.

Edited by Nagraboy

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I will maybe put this to you, why is it then that all the best in Music production and audiophile sound reproduction prefer Analogue/Vinyl over the digital counterpart if it is in your " opinion " just a  " fun " thing to listen to?. 

Edited by Sgt Pepper

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11 minutes ago, Nagraboy said:

Not sure what you mean about the Purple Rain album?

Seriously, you didnt know Purple Rain, 13x Platinum. It is/was Prince's biggest selling album. Even Eric Clapton admitted it was his favourite of all time, and come on if its good enough for Eric :)

 44043040090_5600695594.jpg

Edited by eddie-baby

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What I meant also was would the copy I bought back in 1984 be the same as the one in Tesco's now? Or a digital remaster of some sort that would sound different from my 1984 original copy.

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