Kegworth Show Information

The information for this year's show is now live at www.thehifishow.com or by clicking on the show banner below.

NON EXHIBITOR ROOMS NOW OPEN - Special Offer....Stay Saturday, join in all the build up excitement on Sat night and then gain FREE access to the show on Sunday

LAST MINUTE WAM HIFI SHOW AVAILABILITY - ONLY A FEW EXHIBITOR ROOMS LEFT - ONLY 5 SLEEP ONLY ROOMS LEFT - ONLY 3 BIG SYSTEM SPACES LEFT

Recommended Posts

Super Dealer
16 hours ago, sunbeamgls said:

AudiophileMusings is not sponsored by any hifi companies.

To be fair neither is Mr Colloms.  This is why HiFi Critic retails at £17 an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
1 minute ago, Philbo said:

To be fair neither is Mr Colloms.  This is why HiFi Critic retails at £17 an issue.

I didn't accuse Mr Colloms of anything Philbo, just stated a fact about my blog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DavidHB said:

I acknowledged in my previous post that I might be wrong. I hope that Philbo, who does post here occasionally, might come back on this.

I like the terminology (intra/inter) you used for the distinction you made. Here is my less than expert logic (FWIW), so that someone can tell  me where I have gone wrong.

AFAIK, "sound", which it this point is no more than a sequence of pressure differences that can be visualised as a waveform, is perceived in each ear entirely undifferentiated. It is the brain that sorts out the signal (presumably using some sort of pattern matching) into discreet, recognisable 'sounds', and which also cancels out all any unwanted parts of the signal as noise. We all know what happens when, in a noisy environment, this process is overwhelmed and we can only listen with difficulty, or not listen at all, to the the things we want to hear.

Leaving aside the point that this whole business of hearing is quite miraculous, it must be the case that many if not most of the sound patterns we recognise have some sort of frequency spread and therefore some "inbuilt" phase differences, which are in effect part of the pattern. Equally, as we are used to hearing recognised sounds at different distances, our hearing must be capable of dealing with the associated phase variations. In other words, using your terminology, there is no need, in any reproduction system, to compensate for inter-time phase variations, because the receiver (or hearing) does that already. Intra-time phase variations, on the other hand, are an artefact of the reproduction system, and like all other artefacts should be eliminated if possible.

So, I contend for the purpose of discussion, it is the intra-time and not the inter-time variations that need compensating for. I have in mind the B&W 800 series and Nautilus speakers which place the higher frequency drivers at varying distances behind the notional source, to compensate for the (intra-time) phase variations between them. Because the spatial relationships between the drivers are fixed, the intra-time variations between them, and the time of flight compensation required, are likewise fixed. That was my point.

Now you will rightly say that much of this is supposition and guesswork. So this post is not really a set of statements, but a question. If all this is wrong, how is it wrong? On the basis that every day  is a school day, I should like to learn from any misunderstanding.

David

I have no idea if what you are saying is true or scientific, but this is an extraordinarily logical DavidHB  post.  

It might be a good idea to sing your post to the tune of the Supertramp's Logical Song    :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Paulssurround said:

I have no idea if what you are saying is true or scientific, but this is an extraordinarily logical DavidHB  post. 

Sadly, from what Philbo says, it appears to be neither true nor scientific. So now you know what kind of trouble logic can get you into.

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Philbo said:

In an Exakt system, Space Optimisation+ should be enabled.  This allows the system to know the distance from every drive unit to the listening position.  This information is used to calculate the appropriate delays to apply to the signal fed to the drive units,  ensuring that the linear phase response from each driver sums at the listening position and provides a true linear phase result. 

If you do not like what Space is doing for the room optimisation part then set all filters to zero, but leave Space enabled.

Thanks Philbo  for clarification, although this is maybe not the truth I want to hear :) considering my listening habits and past experience with SO in analog aktiv system. 

As I say, I am new to Exakt and will definitely try all configurations, with and without SO+.

My listening habits incorporate listening music from many different positions in the room so idea of having only one dedicated listening position can sound little limiting.
What about listening from other positions in room? Do they also have benefits from enabled SO+ in Exakt system?
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Philbo said:

n an Exakt system, Space Optimisation+ should be enabled.  This allows the system to know the distance from every drive unit to the listening position.  This information is used to calculate the appropriate delays to apply to the signal fed to the drive units,  ensuring that the linear phase response from each driver sums at the listening position and provides a true linear phase result. 

If you do not like what Space is doing for the room optimisation part then set all filters to zero, but leave Space enabled.

Double post please delete.

Edited by rduras
Double post please delete.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rduras said:

Thanks Philbo  for clarification, although this is maybe not the truth I want to hear :) considering my listening habits and past experience with SO in analog aktiv system. 

As I say, I am new to Exakt and will definitely try all configurations, with and without SO+.

My listening habits incorporate listening music from many different positions in the room so idea of having only one dedicated listening position can sound little limiting.
What about listening from other positions in room? Do they also have benefits from enabled SO+ in Exakt system?
 

 

Well, I have to say, each listening position will benefit if you had a profile for each. I mean, it's self evident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Philbo said:

In an Exakt system, Space Optimisation+ should be enabled.  This allows the system to know the distance from every drive unit to the listening position.  This information is used to calculate the appropriate delays to apply to the signal fed to the drive units,  ensuring that the linear phase response from each driver sums at the listening position and provides a true linear phase result. 

If you do not like what Space is doing for the room optimisation part then set all filters to zero, but leave Space enabled.

:pop:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, timster said:

Well, I have to say, each listening position will benefit if you had a profile for each. I mean, it's self evident.

And you lock your head in a vice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, timster said:

Well, I have to say, each listening position will benefit if you had a profile for each. I mean, it's self evident.

Self evident maybe, but not type of amusement I would like to do every time I change my seat. 
If benefits from Exakt is really so tied and dependent to one listening spot this is not good news for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, rduras said:

Self evident maybe, but not type of amusement I would like to do every time I change my seat. 
If benefits from Exakt is really so tied and dependent to one listening spot this is not good news for me.

If I were you, I'd set SO+ for your primary, close listening, position. It won't benefit the others as much if at all, but then again I doubt it would be detrimental either. Mine actually sounds better from the kitchen as well as main room. Over-excited nodes in there are always in the same place after all  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, timster said:

If I were you, I'd set SO+ for your primary, close listening, position. It won't benefit the others as much if at all, but then again I doubt it would be detrimental either. Mine actually sounds better from the kitchen as well as main room. Over-excited nodes in there are always in the same place after all  

My listening room is long relative to its width, and, with the door half way along one long wall, naturally divides into two areas. SO is set for the seating position at the 'listening' end,  which has a single armchair; the rest of the seating is in the other, 'social' end of the room. This means that, if I am  listening in company, I am often not seated in the primary listing position. The difference between the primary position and the rest of the room is that the listening experience in the primary position is more focussed and immersive, which is of course ideal for listening on one's own. Elsewhere in the room, reproduction is much more than acceptable, as my visitors repeatedly comment.

I agree with timster. If SO improves things at the listening position, it will tend to improve things elsewhere in the room as well. For most people, it isn't worth the faff to have multiple SO profiles in regular use.

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking a little more about this and came to conclusion that maybe this is not so bad news after all. (for me) 

Maybe I just do not like sound with all this DSP corrections of signal and then it is better that it can be turned off and stay only with less processed signal but still using benefits from digital domain crossover.

Edited by rduras

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rduras said:

Maybe I just do not like sound with all this DSP corrections of signal and then it is better that it can be turned off and stay only with less processed signal but still using benefits from digital domain crossover.

I used to run Majik 109s like yours passively with a subwoofer, and found that, with a little experimentation (mainly reducing the effect of the lowest room mode filter) I could get a very useful improvement with SO, particularly once it supported subwoofers. More recently, I have heard M109s in an Exakt system, and to my ears, the improvement from Exakt was not so great as it is with other speakers (such as my Akubariks, or indeed some of the older Linn models). This is no doubt a controversial view. I know, from some of his posts on the old Linn forum, that Philbo for example would probably disagree with me.

Incidentally, have you upgraded your AEB6 to Katalyst (/1) standard? Katalyst, perhaps as a result of its greater processing power, seems to implement SO+ very well indeed. All in all I believe that there are SO settings which, you would find, improve your system markedly. SO v2 may well be the best way forward for you when it becomes Exakt capable. I have met several people who could never get on with SO v1, but have found that, with the better room modelling and more accessible user interface, SO v2 works well for them pretty much out of the box.

David

Edited by DavidHB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.